[AR] Re: Estimating Coefficient of Discharge (Cd)
- From: "Monroe L. King Jr." <monroe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 08:21:01 -0700
I'll admit it does depend on chamber pressure your running. But if your
going for performance at higher chamber pressures self pressurized are
going to come up short on the big end one way or another.
It's the same for automotive applications. Before we started
pressurizing NO2 we came up short on the big end.
Sure, it's not that big a deal if your not trying to get all the
performance you can get. But that's the main reason to switch to hybrid,
performance right? Otherwise just stick with a solid. It's been a while
but as I recall self pressurized was about equal to a standard solid in
performance. (in the real world all things considered)
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: [AR] Re: Estimating Coefficient of Discharge (Cd)
> From: "Anthony Cesaroni" <acesaroni@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Mon, September 15, 2014 7:45 am
> To: <arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
>
> Why wouldn’t they? The dominating design consideration in terms of oxidizer
> feed is still the Dp across the injector and you're still incorporating a
> monopropellant as an oxidizer.
>
> Anthony J. Cesaroni
> President/CEO
> Cesaroni Technology/Cesaroni Aerospace
> http://www.cesaronitech.com/
> (941) 360-3100 x101 Sarasota
> (905) 887-2370 x222 Toronto
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Monroe L. King Jr.
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 10:22 AM
> To: arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [AR] Re: Estimating Coefficient of Discharge (Cd)
>
> Right, but not the same issue as self pressurized hybrids. HTP hybrids are
> not self pressurized and don't have pressure issues that a self pressurized
> hybrid would. Correct?
>
> Monroe
>
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject: [AR] Re: Estimating Coefficient of Discharge (Cd)
> > From: "Anthony Cesaroni" <acesaroni@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Date: Mon, September 15, 2014 7:07 am
> > To: <arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >
> >
> > The HTP hybrid will have the same issue and the same solutions. Classic,
> > head end injected hybrids all have the same issues and it worsens
> > exponentially as they upscale.
> >
> > Anthony J. Cesaroni
> > President/CEO
> > Cesaroni Technology/Cesaroni Aerospace http://www.cesaronitech.com/
> > (941) 360-3100 x101 Sarasota
> > (905) 887-2370 x222 Toronto
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> > Behalf Of Monroe L. King Jr.
> > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 9:49 AM
> > To: arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [AR] Re: Estimating Coefficient of Discharge (Cd)
> >
> > Yeah, not worth my time. I was working on a manifold idea for the
> > Bloodhound motor at one time for a full pressure test. HTP hybrid wont have
> > the same issue. Adding a bit of AP to the HTPB (5%) was also an interesting
> > solution for that motor.
> >
> > Yeah, I just can't get into the hybrids. Not my thing unless they are
> > pressurized versions.
> >
> > Monroe
> >
> > > -------- Original Message --------
> > > Subject: [AR] Re: Estimating Coefficient of Discharge (Cd)
> > > From: "Anthony Cesaroni" <acesaroni@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Date: Mon, September 15, 2014 6:02 am
> > > To: <arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >
> > >
> > > It's not for the most part unless you have a pressure dependent fuel or
> > > the fuel decomposition is independent and separate from the oxidizer/fuel
> > > main stage, i.e. a staged combustion hybrid.
> > >
> > > Anthony J. Cesaroni
> > > President/CEO
> > > Cesaroni Technology/Cesaroni Aerospace http://www.cesaronitech.com/
> > > (941) 360-3100 x101 Sarasota
> > > (905) 887-2370 x222 Toronto
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > On Behalf Of Monroe L. King Jr.
> > > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 1:03 AM
> > > To: arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: [AR] Re: Estimating Coefficient of Discharge (Cd)
> > >
> > > How efficient is that control on most hybrids? I understand regression
> > > rate working in favor of the process. I do admit I have not run any
> > > calculations for regression vs oxidizer flow. Is it close enough to make
> > > that much up? If so it might rejuvenate some interest in hybrids for me.
> > > I'll have to look into it I guess I may have overlooked something there.
> > > My thinking was it wasn't enough.
> > >
> > > Monroe
> > >
> > > > -------- Original Message --------
> > > > Subject: [AR] Re: Estimating Coefficient of Discharge (Cd)
> > > > From: "Ray Rocket" <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> (Redacted sender
> > > > "ar0cketman@xxxxxxxxx" for DMARC)
> > > > Date: Sun, September 14, 2014 8:24 pm
> > > > To: arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --------------------------------------------
> > > > On Sun, 9/14/14, Monroe L. King Jr. <monroe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Which is a big reason I don't much care for the way self
> > > > > pressurized hybrids fly. I know they can't possibly be efficient.
> > > > > (Unless fuel flow is controlled by oxidizer flow)
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, that's how hybrids work.
> > > > Fuel regression rate is controlled by oxidizer mass flux.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ad Astra,
> > > >
> > > > Ray
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