[optacon-l] Re: Optacon research and development
- From: "Steve" <k8sp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 13:27:26 -0500
I rather doubt that it has anything to do with nerve paths. I suspect it is
more that a mahjority of folks are right-handed, so the unit was designed
for people to maneuver the camera with the right hand because of the
criticalities involved with proper alignment and angularity for reproducing
the image in the display.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Natalie" <nataliej@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 5:57 PM
Subject: [optacon-l] Re: Optacon research and development
> When I got my Optacon training in Boston I was commanded never to change
> fingers while learning as it would slow down the learning process. I read
> braille with my left forefinger and can, if I really concentrate, read
> very
> slowly with my right. I guess it has something to do with nerve paths and
> dominant sides of the brain. If something happened to my left hand,
> though,
> it would be a long learning process to switch to my right and as for
> reading
> with the Optacon, I'd have to start all over again, I imagine.
>
> Natalie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "H & C Arnold" <4carolyna@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 5:23 PM
> Subject: [optacon-l] Re: Optacon research and development
>
>
>> In terms of the left forefinger, I can use the next finger, but trying
>> the
>> right one was a problem, because I'm not at all used to maneuvering the
>> camera with my left hand.
>>
>> DOG - Depend on God,
>>
>> Carolyn
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "David" <elephant@xxxxxxxx>
>> To: <optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 4:51 PM
>> Subject: [optacon-l] Re: Optacon research and development
>>
>>
>> Funny. I have been speaking to a number of blind people domestically and
>> abroad, and for some reason, it seems to me the left forefinger is the
>> main
>> finger for many. Not just for Optacon usage, but in general when comes to
>> sensitivity. At least, does make some of us feel normal. Smile, and grin.
>> Still, as I stated, I have enjoyed the ability to use some other fingers,
>> temporarily, for same tasks. It does require more time, and it does not
>> come
>> without training. That is why, I wonder how effecient a display that
>> relies
>> on several fingers will be. To me, it seems, there might be lacks in
>> perseption which could lead to less accuracy in reading, which in turn
>> would
>> lead to lowered speed. Would be interesting to hear some results from the
>> developing team, as to what kind of feedback blind people give on the
>> readability on their display. Not saying this is impossible, but I wonder
>> if
>> it needs a fair amount of sensitivity training. Simply just wonder,
>> nothing
>> more at this state.
>>
>> When comes to the differences between the first and second generation
>> Optacon's, I only can say this much. Somehow, I do feel TSI cut the legs
>> off
>> their own chair, in putting out the second generation. I do see many of
>> the
>> benefits, in smaller size, lighter weight, and a somehow more flexible
>> design. But the quality, in the displaying resolution, as well as a far
>> more
>> tricky adjustment, which either gets too thick, or leaves the display all
>> blank when reading somehow thin lines. And even when comes to reading
>> displays on electronic equipment, I find the second generation to be
>> rather
>> lacking.
>>
>> '
>> This is actually why, I do think it is well worth to make sure, a
>> follow-up
>> to the Optacon, should be careful to not fall in the well-known pitfalls.
>> I
>> know, it poses a high demand on the developers, as they will have to come
>> up
>> with something better than - or at least equal to - the first Optacon, in
>> reading capability. Sure it will be possible, and modern technology opens
>> up
>> for a lot of chances here. But you'd better step carefully. Smile.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "H & C Arnold" <4carolyna@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 6:24 PM
>> Subject: [optacon-l] Re: Optacon research and development
>>
>>
>>> David, you bring up interesting points. First of all, I thought the
>>> first
>>> Optacons produced the clearest images. I now have twoR1Bs and would not
>>> want
>>> one of the modular ones. I believe they were developed to provide
>>> greater
>>> computer reading capacity, but were less clear for hard copy print.
>>>
>>> I tried reading with my right hand; need to go back for training. I had
>>> no
>>> problem putting the forefinger in the array and draping my other fingers
>>> around the right side of the Optacon - BUT MY LEFT HAND WITH THE
>>> CAMERA?!?
>>> I
>>> got out my church directory and finally made NC for North Carolina in an
>>> address, but I had to check with my left hand first. I couldn't believe
>>> how
>>> different it was. I do have greater sensitivity in my left forefinger
>>> than
>>> my right, but think if I had to do it, I could get more out of the
>>> right.
>>>
>>> DOG - Depend on God,
>>>
>>> Carolyn
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "David" <elephant@xxxxxxxx>
>>> To: <optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Cc: "Carol Livermore" <livermore@xxxxxxx>; "Luis Fernando
>>> Velasquez-Garcia"
>>> <lfvelasq@xxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 2:48 AM
>>> Subject: [optacon-l] Re: Optacon research and development
>>>
>>>
>>> AAH! Now we at least see things moving, out of the writing and chatting,
>>> and
>>> into some real attempt. Great information. Yet, it immediately raises a
>>> few
>>> questions in my mind, and more are likely to come. If you want to
>>> contact
>>> me
>>> off-list, you are welcome to do so, for further in-depth discussions.
>>> Still,
>>> let me put my questions on the board, in case that will call for other
>>> users' participation.
>>>
>>> First of all, I want to congratulate you on taking on your shoulders
>>> such
>>> a
>>> tremmendous project. And, I really would have loved to have a chance on
>>> getting my hands on your project. Unfortunately I am living in Europe,
>>> so
>>> let's leave the dreams behind. Smile.
>>>
>>>>From what I get, and please correct me in case I misunderstood certain
>>>>parts
>>> of your descriptions, the unit you are developing will be a product that
>>> kind of tries to sum up several user preferences. You are trying to make
>>> a
>>> product - or have already done so - that both can be run in a strict
>>> "give
>>> me the tactiles" mode, and an interpretted mode, where things get
>>> transfered
>>> into ordinary Braille. At top of that, it seems you are trying to make
>>> it
>>> recognize shapes on a distance, like people moving, their face lines and
>>> so
>>> forth. I follow all your ideas, and each on its own, is a great one.
>>> Yet,
>>> I
>>> am a little uncertain, as to whether I want one and same unit perform my
>>> book reading, and help me recognize my friend's grandmother by her face.
>>> My
>>> big fear of it, is that you will have to make too many compromises. For
>>> a
>>> face recognition, you need a bigger display, but with not all that high
>>> resolution. For a printed page, or even to be able to recognize shapes
>>> and
>>> drawings (like in a diagram for how to put together your new bookshelf),
>>> the
>>> things get turned the other way around. We now will need a higher
>>> resolution, but will maybe be better offf with a smaller physical area
>>> of
>>> displaying. One thing is to recognize printed letters, as the main shape
>>> might be well enough. But what about following rather thin, and
>>> sometimes
>>> broken lines, on a diagram or a form. Recently, we had a discussion on
>>> this
>>> list, as to how to find the signature line on a form. With only one
>>> "pixel"
>>> or tactile representation for each millimeter, I have a slight feeling
>>> such
>>> detection could be rather hard. OK, a lot might be accomplished by
>>> adjusting
>>> the contrast, intensity or whatever other adjustments your product
>>> offers.
>>> Yet, one of the big advantages of the Optacon's small-sized,
>>> high-resolution
>>> display, is that it is fairly easy to detect even minor details on a
>>> page.
>>> At least, to a certain degree. And this is where I see your first
>>> compromise. How detailed a picture do we need to tactilize? Some more
>>> specifics on the matter, would have helped me in giving further feedback
>>> on
>>> this point.
>>>
>>> The second thing, on which your mail was rather vague, is: Exactly how
>>> big
>>> is the displaying array of your unit? You do state, that I will need to
>>> use
>>> more than one finger, to cover the whole display. In what way? Do my
>>> two,
>>> three or four fingers - all rest staticly on the display? Or, do I have
>>> to
>>> constantly move my fingers over something like a square or rectangular
>>> displaying area? My immediate thought is, that if I have to move the
>>> camera
>>> with one hand, and perform another kind of movement with my other
>>> and -
>>> so
>>> as to cover the displaying array - I know at least my capabilities when
>>> comes to coordination well enough, that this would not work very
>>> smoothly.
>>> And if I have a somehow limited resolution, and have to "go hunting" for
>>> a
>>> smaller detail on a too big display, I don't really know how effectively
>>> I
>>> could be operating. So, could you please be a bit more specific to the
>>> exact
>>> shape and operation of the displaying area.
>>>
>>> Still hanging on to the display, I have one more question. Whether we
>>> like
>>> to face it or not, we do ever so often run into unforeseen happenings.
>>> All
>>> the certain, I am cutting some food in my kitchen, and get a cut in my
>>> index
>>> finger (which is the one I use for my Optacon). On goes the bandage, and
>>> away goes my sensitivity for a couple of days; when comes to operating
>>> the
>>> Optacon. That is, specially with the second generation of the Optacon,
>>> you
>>> can always use one of your other fingers on the display. Even when
>>> reading
>>> bigger amounts of text, my index finger gets weary from all the reading,
>>> and
>>> I would quickly move my next finger onto the display, giving my index
>>> finger
>>> a bit of a rest. Now, if I am supposed to use more than one finger on
>>> your
>>> unit, exactly how vulnerable will I be, when circumstances makes one of
>>> my
>>> fingers missing? Add on to this, that there is people who has lost
>>> certain
>>> fingers, or have reduced sensitivity in some fingers. Immediately, I
>>> think
>>> this way: the more fingers you rely on to get the full picture, the more
>>> limited will be the usage. Either on a temporary scale - when you get
>>> one
>>> of
>>> your fingers wrapped up in a bandage; or, on a more permanent basis -
>>> like
>>> when people loose their sensitivity in a finger or two, in an accident.
>>> This
>>> might greatly reduce the market's interest for the final product. It is
>>> a
>>> well-known fact, among Braille readers, that one or two fingers grow the
>>> main sensors. For some people, it even will greatly differ from the one
>>> hand
>>> to the other. To what degree has such factors been taken into
>>> consideration
>>> in your project? Can the unit, for one thing, be operated with either
>>> hand?
>>> And, if I move it from my left to my right hand, will this affect the
>>> way
>>> I
>>> get the stuff presented? OK, what did I mean with my last question?
>>>
>>> If I presume, that your unit requires me to make use of my three first
>>> fingers - Index, Middle- and Ring finger - and we imagine I see a
>>> certain
>>> shape represented under these three fingers, that is well enough. If
>>> this
>>> is
>>> done with my left hand, I can snuggly fit my three fingers onto the
>>> display.
>>> But if I now move it over to my right hand, the part of the display that
>>> formerly was covered by my index finger, will now sit under my ring
>>> finger.
>>> Is there any ergonomic design on the display that will make my fingers
>>> not
>>> fit the same snugly onto the displaying area, when moving from one hand
>>> to
>>> the other? Just put your hands on the table, all flat, and compare them.
>>> You
>>> will see, they do have a slight difference from one finger to the other.
>>> If
>>> I imagine a set of three of the Optacon's displays put together in a
>>> certain
>>> set up, I am not sure the same setup would fit equally on both hands.
>>> So,
>>> without you describing the displaying area of your unit more detailed, I
>>> am
>>> left wondering how well it goes with user preferences for operation.
>>> Again,
>>> would be nice with more info on the matter.
>>>
>>> What is the physical size and weight on the unit, and its camera? OK, I
>>> do
>>> realize, you are on a developing state, but what is the current size? Or
>>> the
>>> size you aim for? I am not asking general terms here - like "it will be
>>> in
>>> a
>>> portable size". A Laptop, is portable. So is a cell phone. But there is
>>> a
>>> great difference in HOWE portable they are, and for what activities I
>>> would
>>> like to have the hazzle of bringing the one or the other. Noone wants to
>>> go
>>> do their grocery shopping, dragging around with a laptop; but most of us
>>> will be fine with our cell phone in our pocket. So what is the estimated
>>> size, aimed for battery life, and maybe a word or two on the actual
>>> shape
>>> of
>>> the unit - that you are going for?
>>>
>>> You mentioned that your unit will be able to read CRTs, if I got you
>>> right.
>>> I guess, that includes the screen of a laptop. But how about displays on
>>> other equipments. For instance, will I be able to successfully read the
>>> time
>>> off a digital watch? Reading the display of my microwave oven? Or, read
>>> the
>>> text message in my cell phone display? OK, maybe none of these are all
>>> that
>>> realistic cases of daily usage, but I actually have been in the need of
>>> using my Optacon for things like that, in several situations.
>>> Unfortunately,
>>> the Optacon does not handle either of these cases very well - at least
>>> with
>>> the standard lense. So how well does your unit work with displays of
>>> different size, shape and technical quality?
>>>
>>> One of the drawbacks of the Optacon camera, has always been its lack of
>>> angling capabilities. If, for instance, I am to explore the buttons on
>>> my
>>> new stereo system, my new microwave, or my laundry machine - I am often
>>> out
>>> of luck. The print might be clear enough, but it often sits that close
>>> to
>>> the buttons or edges of the qppliance, that the camera cannot be move
>>> directly across the printed surface. You then are left to move the
>>> camera
>>> on
>>> a few millimeters distance from the surface, and the light conditions
>>> get
>>> too bad for real recognition. In what way will your camera handle this
>>> kind
>>> of cases?
>>>
>>> On the Optacon, you ever so often would have to change the lense. Most
>>> users
>>> would be familiar with two of them, the standard lense, and the
>>> magnified
>>> lense. In addition, there was the lense for typewriters, and I believe
>>> in
>>> the later days, they came around with a lense designed for reading
>>> computer
>>> screens. Will your unit be in need of frequent camera change, or is your
>>> camera well enough equipped, that it will be a matter of user settings,
>>> to
>>> read under different conditions?
>>>
>>> As I said in my introduction, there will be more questions. They are all
>>> based on extensive experience with the advantages and lackings of both
>>> the
>>> first and second generation of the Optacon, as well as experience with
>>> other
>>> reading and "visualizing" equipment for the blind - all through the last
>>> 3
>>> or 4 decades. If you are interested, be kind to contact me off-list at:
>>> trailerdavid@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>> Yet, I do hold, the above questions are of such general characteristics,
>>> that it would be great to see them answered on the list. Please be
>>> aware,
>>> I
>>> have not put any of those questions on the board so as to discourage
>>> your
>>> efforts, but merely wanted to point out technical and operational
>>> pitfalls,
>>> that so often are being overlooked when this kind of equipment is being
>>> developed. Thanks for your consideration.
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Seth Teller" <teller@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: <optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Cc: "Carol Livermore" <livermore@xxxxxxx>; "Luis Fernando
>>> Velasquez-Garcia"
>>> <lfvelasq@xxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 3:07 AM
>>> Subject: [optacon-l] Re: Optacon research and development
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dear Optacon users and list members,
>>>>
>>>> This post is prompted by the many messages that have appeared
>>>> recently expressing interest in a successor to the Optacon.
>>>>
>>>> We are researchers at Northeastern University and MIT who are
>>>> developing a high-resolution tactile display intended to provide
>>>> blind people with a way to gather visual input through their
>>>> fingertips. The display, based on MEMS (micro-electromechanical
>>>> systems) technology, will have roughly one "tactel" (or tactile
>>>> pixel) per millimeter in both horizontal and vertical dimensions,
>>>> and will accommodate touch by several fingertips simultaneously
>>>> rather than just one. Thus it will have both higher spatial
>>>> resolution, and more total area, than the Optacon.
>>>>
>>>> Like the Optacon, the tactile display will be linked to a camera
>>>> or "retina" so as to provide direct sensation of printed material
>>>> and CRT displays. However, a significant difference between our
>>>> approach and the Optacon is that our device is intended to code
>>>> information not only spatially but spatiotemporally, for example
>>>> as particular patterns of motion under the fingers. Compared to
>>>> the Optacon, the relatively higher resolution of the device we
>>>> are designing should enable access by the user to both more kinds
>>>> of information, and more dynamic information, than can be conveyed
>>>> by an Optacon.
>>>>
>>>> One use case would involve coupling the device to sensors integrated
>>>> unobtrusively into clothing, to provide real-time information about
>>>> the wearer's surroundings, including: orientation with respect to the
>>>> compass or landmarks; mobility hazards such as obstacles and dropoffs;
>>>> the presence, identities and motion of any people nearby; the presence
>>>> and contents of nearby signage; and other aspects of the environment,
>>>> to be determined in consultation with users. (In this way the device
>>>> would produce sensations at the fingertips analogous to those on the
>>>> tongue described in Nick Dotson's recent posts.)
>>>>
>>>> The system would "interpret" raw sensor data to varying degrees as
>>>> per the task and the user's preferences. For example, while names
>>>> of approaching people might be displayed as Braille, the user could
>>>> also elect to receive raw data directly, for example to read distant
>>>> signage or to feel the shape of others' faces at a remove. And of
>>>> course the system would support an Optacon-like mode in which the
>>>> user could move the retina across any document or object in order to
>>>> experience a minimally interpreted tactile version of whatever data
>>>> the retina was capturing.
>>>>
>>>> This effort has been underway since early 2011, and has been informed
>>>> by many conversations with blind people at MIT, at The Carroll Center
>>>> for the Blind, at the National Braille Press, at the Bay State Council
>>>> of the Blind, and elsewhere. We would be delighted as well to learn
>>>> your opinions, either on or off this list, about how such a system
>>>> might meet your needs or fall short.
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>
>>>> Prof. Seth Teller <teller@xxxxxxx>
>>>> Prof. Carol Livermore <livermore@xxxxxxx>
>>>> Dr. Luis Fernando Velasquez-Garcia <lfvelasq@xxxxxxx>
>>>>
>>>> On 11/11/2012 6:43 PM, Ninette Legates wrote:
>>>>> Hi List,
>>>>> Could we, as a group, approach engineering
>>>>> departments
>>>>> who
>>>>> might be interested in working on a modern version of the Optacon?
>>>>> Perhaps a
>>>>> group of researchers would take the information that has come out on
>>>>> this
>>>>> list and produce a prototype. The realm of possibilities for such a
>>>>> device
>>>>> is truly exciting.-Ninette LeGates
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> to view the list archives, go to:
>>>>>
>>>>> www.freelists.org/archives/optacon-l
>>>>>
>>>>> To unsubscribe at any time, just send a message to:
>>>>>
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>>>>> the
>>>>> quotes) in the message subject.
>>>>>
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>>>>> quotes) in the message subject.
>>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>
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>>
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