[optacon-l] Re: Optacon research and development
- From: "Natalie" <nataliej@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 20:00:00 -0500
I think that's why my Optacon trainer didn't want me to try using another
finger when my index finger got over-stimulated. It's an entirely new
learning experience and from their point of view would be time consuming.
Natalie
----- Original Message -----
From: "cpond" <cpond@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 7:36 PM
Subject: [optacon-l] Re: Optacon research and development
>I used to happily speed read braille with either both index fingers, or the
> right index happily trailing along as me trailed off to sleep. Me left
> index is for optacon reading. However, in 2006 I mulched off my right
> (favoured braille reading) finger to the first joint. Although God did
> bring about a miraculous healing, infection did set in so that I had to
> relearn to read braille with the right niddle finger. An interesting
> neurological and learning experience which took about a year. Now, I can
> read braille successfully really only with both left index and right
> middle
> finger at the same time. It took a lot of work and practice (and
> practise( to relearn braille. It was as if I had never known braille,
> which
> baffled neurologists in Toronto who thought a blind person could simply
> pick
> up where they left off by using another finger, albeit my mind remembered
> its tactile template. Now, comfortably reading braille from a
> two-dimensinal page is difficult and not comfortable nor convenient, and I
> am best when using a braille display.
> A little limiting,but so be it.
>
> Charles
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 4:51 PM
> To: optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [optacon-l] Re: Optacon research and development
>
> Funny. I have been speaking to a number of blind people domestically and
> abroad, and for some reason, it seems to me the left forefinger is the
> main
> finger for many. Not just for Optacon usage, but in general when comes to
> sensitivity. At least, does make some of us feel normal. Smile, and grin.
> Still, as I stated, I have enjoyed the ability to use some other fingers,
> temporarily, for same tasks. It does require more time, and it does not
> come
> without training. That is why, I wonder how effecient a display that
> relies
> on several fingers will be. To me, it seems, there might be lacks in
> perseption which could lead to less accuracy in reading, which in turn
> would
> lead to lowered speed. Would be interesting to hear some results from the
> developing team, as to what kind of feedback blind people give on the
> readability on their display. Not saying this is impossible, but I wonder
> if
> it needs a fair amount of sensitivity training. Simply just wonder,
> nothing
> more at this state.
>
> When comes to the differences between the first and second generation
> Optacon's, I only can say this much. Somehow, I do feel TSI cut the legs
> off
> their own chair, in putting out the second generation. I do see many of
> the
> benefits, in smaller size, lighter weight, and a somehow more flexible
> design. But the quality, in the displaying resolution, as well as a far
> more
> tricky adjustment, which either gets too thick, or leaves the display all
> blank when reading somehow thin lines. And even when comes to reading
> displays on electronic equipment, I find the second generation to be
> rather
> lacking.
>
> '
> This is actually why, I do think it is well worth to make sure, a
> follow-up
> to the Optacon, should be careful to not fall in the well-known pitfalls.
> I
> know, it poses a high demand on the developers, as they will have to come
> up
> with something better than - or at least equal to - the first Optacon, in
> reading capability. Sure it will be possible, and modern technology opens
> up
> for a lot of chances here. But you'd better step carefully. Smile.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "H & C Arnold" <4carolyna@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 6:24 PM
> Subject: [optacon-l] Re: Optacon research and development
>
>
>> David, you bring up interesting points. First of all, I thought the first
>> Optacons produced the clearest images. I now have twoR1Bs and would not
>> want
>> one of the modular ones. I believe they were developed to provide greater
>> computer reading capacity, but were less clear for hard copy print.
>>
>> I tried reading with my right hand; need to go back for training. I had
>> no
>> problem putting the forefinger in the array and draping my other fingers
>> around the right side of the Optacon - BUT MY LEFT HAND WITH THE
>> CAMERA?!?
>> I
>> got out my church directory and finally made NC for North Carolina in an
>> address, but I had to check with my left hand first. I couldn't believe
>> how
>> different it was. I do have greater sensitivity in my left forefinger
>> than
>> my right, but think if I had to do it, I could get more out of the right.
>>
>> DOG - Depend on God,
>>
>> Carolyn
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "David" <elephant@xxxxxxxx>
>> To: <optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Cc: "Carol Livermore" <livermore@xxxxxxx>; "Luis Fernando
>> Velasquez-Garcia"
>> <lfvelasq@xxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 2:48 AM
>> Subject: [optacon-l] Re: Optacon research and development
>>
>>
>> AAH! Now we at least see things moving, out of the writing and chatting,
>> and
>> into some real attempt. Great information. Yet, it immediately raises a
>> few
>> questions in my mind, and more are likely to come. If you want to contact
>> me
>> off-list, you are welcome to do so, for further in-depth discussions.
>> Still,
>> let me put my questions on the board, in case that will call for other
>> users' participation.
>>
>> First of all, I want to congratulate you on taking on your shoulders such
>> a
>> tremmendous project. And, I really would have loved to have a chance on
>> getting my hands on your project. Unfortunately I am living in Europe, so
>> let's leave the dreams behind. Smile.
>>
>>>From what I get, and please correct me in case I misunderstood certain
>>>parts
>> of your descriptions, the unit you are developing will be a product that
>> kind of tries to sum up several user preferences. You are trying to make
>> a
>> product - or have already done so - that both can be run in a strict
>> "give
>> me the tactiles" mode, and an interpretted mode, where things get
>> transfered
>> into ordinary Braille. At top of that, it seems you are trying to make it
>> recognize shapes on a distance, like people moving, their face lines and
>> so
>> forth. I follow all your ideas, and each on its own, is a great one. Yet,
>> I
>> am a little uncertain, as to whether I want one and same unit perform my
>> book reading, and help me recognize my friend's grandmother by her face.
>> My
>> big fear of it, is that you will have to make too many compromises. For a
>> face recognition, you need a bigger display, but with not all that high
>> resolution. For a printed page, or even to be able to recognize shapes
>> and
>> drawings (like in a diagram for how to put together your new bookshelf),
>> the
>> things get turned the other way around. We now will need a higher
>> resolution, but will maybe be better offf with a smaller physical area of
>> displaying. One thing is to recognize printed letters, as the main shape
>> might be well enough. But what about following rather thin, and sometimes
>> broken lines, on a diagram or a form. Recently, we had a discussion on
>> this
>> list, as to how to find the signature line on a form. With only one
>> "pixel"
>> or tactile representation for each millimeter, I have a slight feeling
>> such
>> detection could be rather hard. OK, a lot might be accomplished by
>> adjusting
>> the contrast, intensity or whatever other adjustments your product
>> offers.
>> Yet, one of the big advantages of the Optacon's small-sized,
>> high-resolution
>> display, is that it is fairly easy to detect even minor details on a
>> page.
>> At least, to a certain degree. And this is where I see your first
>> compromise. How detailed a picture do we need to tactilize? Some more
>> specifics on the matter, would have helped me in giving further feedback
>> on
>> this point.
>>
>> The second thing, on which your mail was rather vague, is: Exactly how
>> big
>> is the displaying array of your unit? You do state, that I will need to
>> use
>> more than one finger, to cover the whole display. In what way? Do my two,
>> three or four fingers - all rest staticly on the display? Or, do I have
>> to
>> constantly move my fingers over something like a square or rectangular
>> displaying area? My immediate thought is, that if I have to move the
>> camera
>> with one hand, and perform another kind of movement with my other hand -
>> so
>> as to cover the displaying array - I know at least my capabilities when
>> comes to coordination well enough, that this would not work very
>> smoothly.
>> And if I have a somehow limited resolution, and have to "go hunting" for
>> a
>> smaller detail on a too big display, I don't really know how effectively
>> I
>> could be operating. So, could you please be a bit more specific to the
>> exact
>> shape and operation of the displaying area.
>>
>> Still hanging on to the display, I have one more question. Whether we
>> like
>> to face it or not, we do ever so often run into unforeseen happenings.
>> All
>> the certain, I am cutting some food in my kitchen, and get a cut in my
>> index
>> finger (which is the one I use for my Optacon). On goes the bandage, and
>> away goes my sensitivity for a couple of days; when comes to operating
>> the
>> Optacon. That is, specially with the second generation of the Optacon,
>> you
>> can always use one of your other fingers on the display. Even when
>> reading
>> bigger amounts of text, my index finger gets weary from all the reading,
>> and
>> I would quickly move my next finger onto the display, giving my index
>> finger
>> a bit of a rest. Now, if I am supposed to use more than one finger on
>> your
>> unit, exactly how vulnerable will I be, when circumstances makes one of
>> my
>> fingers missing? Add on to this, that there is people who has lost
>> certain
>> fingers, or have reduced sensitivity in some fingers. Immediately, I
>> think
>> this way: the more fingers you rely on to get the full picture, the more
>> limited will be the usage. Either on a temporary scale - when you get one
>> of
>> your fingers wrapped up in a bandage; or, on a more permanent basis -
>> like
>> when people loose their sensitivity in a finger or two, in an accident.
>> This
>> might greatly reduce the market's interest for the final product. It is a
>> well-known fact, among Braille readers, that one or two fingers grow the
>> main sensors. For some people, it even will greatly differ from the one
>> hand
>> to the other. To what degree has such factors been taken into
>> consideration
>> in your project? Can the unit, for one thing, be operated with either
>> hand?
>> And, if I move it from my left to my right hand, will this affect the way
>> I
>> get the stuff presented? OK, what did I mean with my last question?
>>
>> If I presume, that your unit requires me to make use of my three first
>> fingers - Index, Middle- and Ring finger - and we imagine I see a certain
>> shape represented under these three fingers, that is well enough. If this
>> is
>> done with my left hand, I can snuggly fit my three fingers onto the
>> display.
>> But if I now move it over to my right hand, the part of the display that
>> formerly was covered by my index finger, will now sit under my ring
>> finger.
>> Is there any ergonomic design on the display that will make my fingers
>> not
>> fit the same snugly onto the displaying area, when moving from one hand
>> to
>> the other? Just put your hands on the table, all flat, and compare them.
>> You
>> will see, they do have a slight difference from one finger to the other.
>> If
>> I imagine a set of three of the Optacon's displays put together in a
>> certain
>> set up, I am not sure the same setup would fit equally on both hands. So,
>> without you describing the displaying area of your unit more detailed, I
>> am
>> left wondering how well it goes with user preferences for operation.
>> Again,
>> would be nice with more info on the matter.
>>
>> What is the physical size and weight on the unit, and its camera? OK, I
>> do
>> realize, you are on a developing state, but what is the current size? Or
>> the
>> size you aim for? I am not asking general terms here - like "it will be
>> in
>> a
>> portable size". A Laptop, is portable. So is a cell phone. But there is a
>> great difference in HOWE portable they are, and for what activities I
>> would
>> like to have the hazzle of bringing the one or the other. Noone wants to
>> go
>> do their grocery shopping, dragging around with a laptop; but most of us
>> will be fine with our cell phone in our pocket. So what is the estimated
>> size, aimed for battery life, and maybe a word or two on the actual shape
>> of
>> the unit - that you are going for?
>>
>> You mentioned that your unit will be able to read CRTs, if I got you
>> right.
>> I guess, that includes the screen of a laptop. But how about displays on
>> other equipments. For instance, will I be able to successfully read the
>> time
>> off a digital watch? Reading the display of my microwave oven? Or, read
>> the
>> text message in my cell phone display? OK, maybe none of these are all
>> that
>> realistic cases of daily usage, but I actually have been in the need of
>> using my Optacon for things like that, in several situations.
>> Unfortunately,
>> the Optacon does not handle either of these cases very well - at least
>> with
>> the standard lense. So how well does your unit work with displays of
>> different size, shape and technical quality?
>>
>> One of the drawbacks of the Optacon camera, has always been its lack of
>> angling capabilities. If, for instance, I am to explore the buttons on my
>> new stereo system, my new microwave, or my laundry machine - I am often
>> out
>> of luck. The print might be clear enough, but it often sits that close to
>> the buttons or edges of the qppliance, that the camera cannot be move
>> directly across the printed surface. You then are left to move the camera
>> on
>> a few millimeters distance from the surface, and the light conditions get
>> too bad for real recognition. In what way will your camera handle this
>> kind
>> of cases?
>>
>> On the Optacon, you ever so often would have to change the lense. Most
>> users
>> would be familiar with two of them, the standard lense, and the magnified
>> lense. In addition, there was the lense for typewriters, and I believe in
>> the later days, they came around with a lense designed for reading
>> computer
>> screens. Will your unit be in need of frequent camera change, or is your
>> camera well enough equipped, that it will be a matter of user settings,
>> to
>> read under different conditions?
>>
>> As I said in my introduction, there will be more questions. They are all
>> based on extensive experience with the advantages and lackings of both
>> the
>> first and second generation of the Optacon, as well as experience with
>> other
>> reading and "visualizing" equipment for the blind - all through the last
>> 3
>> or 4 decades. If you are interested, be kind to contact me off-list at:
>> trailerdavid@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>> Yet, I do hold, the above questions are of such general characteristics,
>> that it would be great to see them answered on the list. Please be aware,
>> I
>> have not put any of those questions on the board so as to discourage your
>> efforts, but merely wanted to point out technical and operational
>> pitfalls,
>> that so often are being overlooked when this kind of equipment is being
>> developed. Thanks for your consideration.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Seth Teller" <teller@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Cc: "Carol Livermore" <livermore@xxxxxxx>; "Luis Fernando
>> Velasquez-Garcia"
>> <lfvelasq@xxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 3:07 AM
>> Subject: [optacon-l] Re: Optacon research and development
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Dear Optacon users and list members,
>>>
>>> This post is prompted by the many messages that have appeared
>>> recently expressing interest in a successor to the Optacon.
>>>
>>> We are researchers at Northeastern University and MIT who are
>>> developing a high-resolution tactile display intended to provide
>>> blind people with a way to gather visual input through their
>>> fingertips. The display, based on MEMS (micro-electromechanical
>>> systems) technology, will have roughly one "tactel" (or tactile
>>> pixel) per millimeter in both horizontal and vertical dimensions,
>>> and will accommodate touch by several fingertips simultaneously
>>> rather than just one. Thus it will have both higher spatial
>>> resolution, and more total area, than the Optacon.
>>>
>>> Like the Optacon, the tactile display will be linked to a camera
>>> or "retina" so as to provide direct sensation of printed material
>>> and CRT displays. However, a significant difference between our
>>> approach and the Optacon is that our device is intended to code
>>> information not only spatially but spatiotemporally, for example
>>> as particular patterns of motion under the fingers. Compared to
>>> the Optacon, the relatively higher resolution of the device we
>>> are designing should enable access by the user to both more kinds
>>> of information, and more dynamic information, than can be conveyed
>>> by an Optacon.
>>>
>>> One use case would involve coupling the device to sensors integrated
>>> unobtrusively into clothing, to provide real-time information about
>>> the wearer's surroundings, including: orientation with respect to the
>>> compass or landmarks; mobility hazards such as obstacles and dropoffs;
>>> the presence, identities and motion of any people nearby; the presence
>>> and contents of nearby signage; and other aspects of the environment,
>>> to be determined in consultation with users. (In this way the device
>>> would produce sensations at the fingertips analogous to those on the
>>> tongue described in Nick Dotson's recent posts.)
>>>
>>> The system would "interpret" raw sensor data to varying degrees as
>>> per the task and the user's preferences. For example, while names
>>> of approaching people might be displayed as Braille, the user could
>>> also elect to receive raw data directly, for example to read distant
>>> signage or to feel the shape of others' faces at a remove. And of
>>> course the system would support an Optacon-like mode in which the
>>> user could move the retina across any document or object in order to
>>> experience a minimally interpreted tactile version of whatever data
>>> the retina was capturing.
>>>
>>> This effort has been underway since early 2011, and has been informed
>>> by many conversations with blind people at MIT, at The Carroll Center
>>> for the Blind, at the National Braille Press, at the Bay State Council
>>> of the Blind, and elsewhere. We would be delighted as well to learn
>>> your opinions, either on or off this list, about how such a system
>>> might meet your needs or fall short.
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>> Prof. Seth Teller <teller@xxxxxxx>
>>> Prof. Carol Livermore <livermore@xxxxxxx>
>>> Dr. Luis Fernando Velasquez-Garcia <lfvelasq@xxxxxxx>
>>>
>>> On 11/11/2012 6:43 PM, Ninette Legates wrote:
>>>> Hi List,
>>>> Could we, as a group, approach engineering departments
>>>> who
>>>> might be interested in working on a modern version of the Optacon?
>>>> Perhaps a
>>>> group of researchers would take the information that has come out on
>>>> this
>>>> list and produce a prototype. The realm of possibilities for such a
>>>> device
>>>> is truly exciting.-Ninette LeGates
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> to view the list archives, go to:
>>>>
>>>> www.freelists.org/archives/optacon-l
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>
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>>
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