Advertising at the two big annual conventions seems like a good idea. They're probably in the planning stages now. I did know of someone who had an Optacon in his attic where the heat damaged it. It could probably be repaired but he moved and I don't know where he is now. Too bad I didn't know about this list several years ago. Janet -----Original Message----- From: optacon-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:optacon-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Natalie Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2012 3:43 PM To: optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [optacon-l] Re: Optacon List Archives I took out a personal loan to get my first Optacon and it was the best decision I ever made. Don't know what I'd do without it now in my daily life although I no longer read long books with it. Unfortunately a majority of blind individuals seem to prefer to be read to with voice applications and even find braille a drag. It's a trend that has gained a lot of momentum with the computer and along with it comes terrible spelling. The Optacon would have quite a fight to come back or improve but I still think we might find others somewhere in dresser drawers or closets if we advertised, say, at conventions. Unfortunately I don't go to them but it's just an idea. Natalie ----- Original Message ----- From: "H & C Arnold" <4carolyna@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2012 3:15 PM Subject: [optacon-l] Re: Optacon List Archives > What would Telesensory have to gain by clinging to their patent? > > We got a mortgage on a house in order to have the money for my first > Optacon. For the second one, I applied for a no-interest loan at the local > agency for the blind where I lived and paid it off in a year. > > DOG - Depend on God, > > Carolyn > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David" <elephant@xxxxxxxx> > To: <optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2012 2:17 PM > Subject: [optacon-l] Re: Optacon List Archives > > > Well, I agree, it is no nice practice. Yet, that is the way things goe, in > quite a few cases - even with other equipments. What's more, I some years > ago, asked a colleague, if he knew of anyone who had an unused Optacon > hanging around. And yes, for sure, he could readily point me to a person, > who simply had stuck away the Optacon in the storage room. Could I please > take it over? Oh, no! How could I ever dream of asking such a question, > was > the answer. The unit belonging to the authorities, it could not be > overtaken > by any other user. Another user passed away, and I thought now I could > have > a chance for getting my hands on a unit, before the trash bin grabbed its > hold of it. Again, the answer was no. Since the Optacon is considered > obsolete, the authorities refuse to redistribute any. And the users, > refuses > to give away the units, worrying they could get in trouble with the > authorities. Wonder how many units are out there, that simply lingers > around, without benefitting anyone. It's really a sad story. But I have > seen > it over and over again, with all sorts of stuff for the blind.It is a > great > thing to have the authorities, or a cherity organization pay your > equipment, > as you get your hands on stuff you would hardly ever have been able to > dream > of, otherwise. But, unfortunately, it often results in cases like here > described. And, many times, it keeps the prices up on the new equipment. > That is why, I think it would be great, if we could have a new model - > fair > enough priced for even normal people to buy it. If the developing could be > done on an idealistic scale, and the project could have been open-sourced, > we might even be able to see units on the market with prices down to the > 1000 dollars or so. Still, it would mean a lift for a household budget, > but > it would be within the reach for most people. What's more, getting it > fairly > priced, would mean that more people would buy, hence the sale would come > up > a bit. Too high prices, only restricts the amount of sold units, calling > for > even higher prices. One of my biggest worries here is, that there does > exist > some kind of patent, that will block even idealistic people from building > their new project on the Optacon design. Without me knowing anything about > the matter, I guess even the whole idea of having a hand-held camera that > transfers stuff to a unit, and this stuff being tactilized on a vibrating > display - well even such a basic idea, can be patented. Depending on how > hard Telesensory nagged on their patents, we might have to come up with > real > new ways of handling the matter. Only good thing is, that even patents, > might be getting old these days, and at one point they will expire. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jyrki Voutilainen" <jykke.voutilainen@xxxxxxxxx> > To: <optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2012 7:52 PM > Subject: [optacon-l] Re: Optacon List Archives > > >> Please forgive me, David and the list, but throwing still working units >> to >> the trash bin seems to me as something criminal and unforgivable, but of >> course that's nobody's fault on this list! >> >> After reading this another time I was so upset that I made more typos >> than >> usual that I had to correct, but still, nobody on this list kan be >> blamed, >> only the authorities! >> >> On Sun, 4 Nov 2012, David wrote: >> >>> Hmm, Well. Puts things in a bit of a perspective. Ecconomically, if >>> there >>> was 12000 units manufactured, and I bet quite a few of them have >>> retired, >>> there might not be more than maybe a thousand left with active users. >>> Something I really regret, since I have been an active user for 25 >>> years, >>> these days. And what's more, I have used the Optacon for quite a few >>> things >>> more than what it normally would have been used for. It thrills me to >>> see, >>> that several other users here, have been using their units for extended >>> activities as well. >>> >>> Getting hold of "stashed-away" units, might prove a bit of a challenge. >>> Specially so, due to the fact that the manufacturing was discontinued >>> about >>> 15 years ago. Locally here, it was the authorities that paid for the >>> Optacon, and all training programs. That meant, that whenever you no >>> longer >>> did need your Optacon, or did not want it anymore, you had to return it >>> to >>> the authorities. And what did they do with the units returned? Last time >>> I >>> called them (about 10 years ago), they told me that they simply through >>> the >>> units in the trassh bin. My question was why, and they told me, they had >>> no >>> program for refurbishing the units, did not want to send them out of the >>> country for repairs, and had no money set aside for the purpose. >>> Legally, >>> I >>> am not even allowed to send my unit out of the country for repair, >>> although >>> I doubt they even will have it filed any longer, due to them reckon the >>> Optacon as an obsolete assisting technology. Well, I won't be speaking >>> for >>> all other countries, but I know of a couple of places where similar >>> situations will have to be dealt with. In fact, even if I did not want >>> my >>> Optacon any longer, I am legally not permitted to sell or give it away, >>> even >>> to other users locally, that could have benefitted. I am, by the power >>> of >>> the local laws, obliged to return it to the authorities - only to see >>> them >>> drop it in the trash bin. Well, that is the hard side of the story. >>> >>> Now, for the dreamy side of the world, it is quite interesting that the >>> discussion came up right now. Only a couple of days ago, it crossed my >>> mind, >>> why we haven't seen more activity lately, when comes to re-invent the >>> Optacon. For one thing, there is the matter of time. Many of the old >>> users >>> who firstly embraced the technologic break-through of the Optacon - way >>> back >>> in the early 70's - will not be among us any longer. And even if they >>> are, >>> they will be quite grown-up people by now, meaning that they hardly will >>> be >>> too active users any longer. Forgive me, list members, if anyone of you >>> fall >>> into this category, and feel that I am a bit off-tracked here. But I >>> just >>> know a few cases personally, where this is the case. >>> >>> The fact of main-stream products becoming quite cheap and accessible, is >>> another factor that plays its role in here. Many a user of the Optacon >>> in >>> the 70's and 80's, never got anything further but to read their phone >>> bills, >>> a letter or two every month, and maybe a few recipes. All of this, they >>> can >>> quickly, effortlessly and easily do by means of their computer and >>> scanner, >>> these days. I doubt we will have an easy task in convincing them, that >>> they >>> need to do the interpretation themselves, and even do their reading with >>> "yet another unit". >>> >>> Well, then there is the change in the flow of information. I do hold, >>> that >>> today there is a fair amount of information, for which we did use our >>> Optacons back in the 80's - but for which we hardly would bother >>> bringing >>> out the unit today. How many of you, do actually sit down and read >>> fliers >>> and newspaper advertisments with the Optacon, since most of it will be >>> available on your computer, directly from the net. Or, what about the >>> phone >>> directory, that we used to get from the phone company, every once a >>> year. >>> Over here, they haven't even bothered to distribute it, the last few >>> years. >>> Why? sSimply because it is all there, right on the net. And honestly, >>> why >>> would I use half an hour on fooling around with small print in the phone >>> directory, when I can get my friends three phone numbers from the net, >>> in >>> thirty seconds? >>> >>> So, to convince the authorities to even consider paying for any new >>> Optacon-like technology, I would have to come up with pretty good >>> arguments. >>> And, even in places where the authorities do not pay, my guess is, that >>> it >>> often would have been cherity organizations, who paid for the Optacon. >>> And >>> they likely, will demand a certain kind of reasons, again to start >>> giving >>> out units. >>> >>> Am I saying all of this to discourage further development? Absolutely >>> NO! >>> All I want to point out, is that likely there will be quite a few >>> challenges >>> in getting these units paid for. This fact, added on to the fact of very >>> few >>> users, will call for any new technology to be reasonably priced. Taking >>> into >>> consideration, the low prices on electronic equipment these days - when >>> you >>> can get an MP3-player for something under ten US dollars on places like >>> EBay, there might just exist a reasonable chance for an affordable price >>> on >>> a new Optacon-model. Reality, though, has taught me a fairly different >>> story. Even the more recent attempts to come up with hand-held - or >>> stand-alone - readers for the blind, have dearly failed in being offered >>> for >>> affordable prices. A few years ago, I read about a hand-held equipment, >>> which supposedly is not much bigger than a computer mouse, and which >>> would >>> be used for reading of plain text. It is called TopBraille. I got >>> inthusiastic about the idea, and contacted the local dealer. They were >>> quite >>> helpful, in informing me that the price was - ONLY 3000 US Dollars. >>> Sorry, >>> guys, but forget about asking this - out of a plain normal household >>> budget. >>> And, definitely so, since it was an "interpretting unit", meaning that >>> it >>> held a piece of OCR built-in. This way, it cannot be used for diagrams, >>> drawings, shape recognition - and all the other fun we have with our >>> dear >>> Optacon units. Yet another "helpful" piece of technology for assisting >>> blind >>> people in their reading activity, was recently introduced on the market. >>> At >>> the moment, I don't recall its exact name, but wonder if it was >>> something >>> like EasyReader. Again, the blind community was asking the price, and >>> ended >>> up shocked - when learning it to cost something like 2500 dollars. And, >>> again, it was an "interpretting unit". >>> >>> If we want a replacement for the Optacon, I would say, let us at least >>> demand it to be like the Optacon. With modern technology and >>> electronics, >>> maybe even with a new invention for a more quiet operation. But let us >>> stick >>> to a none-interpretting piece of equipment - leaving all interpretation >>> to >>> the human brain. No electronics or software, will ever be able to >>> out-range >>> that master-piece of creation, after all. >>> >>> Now, we could have wished for the good old Optacon to simply be put back >>> into production. After all, it has had 4 decades on proving its >>> durability. >>> And its functionality. I wonder, though, if there is certain patents, >>> that >>> will block such a dream. Besides, modern technology, might be a good >>> thing. >>> Just imagine if your Optacon could be running for 50 hours, on one >>> charge. >>> Or, if the vibrating display could please be made less noisy. That would >>> even mean, that you can sit in the living room, doing your reading, >>> without >>> disturbing the rest of the household, in their TV watching. And, what if >>> it >>> could be made half the size and weight. I don't think any of this is >>> unrealistic ideas, long as you make full use of modern technology. Just >>> look >>> at a cell phone, or a computer, developing through the same 4 decades - >>> or >>> even less. >>> >>> The ideas of making the project open-sourced, and maybe even partially >>> run >>> it on an idealistic basis - I really embrace. Unfortunately, none of the >>> attempts seen inside the blind world, has been applying any such ideas. >>> As >>> shown above, we over and over again, are presented with nice products, >>> that >>> are way over-priced. What I could have thought of, as a solution here, >>> is >>> if >>> we could have got some university students interested. Maybe they could >>> do >>> the invention as a project, being part of their graduation. That way, we >>> would have low costs, in developing and testing the model. As with many >>> other projects, it is the developing of a product, that is the real >>> hungry >>> ecconomic Caterpillar. Looking on all the other more or less useless >>> stuff >>> students are trying to develop, this would at least make some real >>> sense. >>> Besides, it would bring those students a far way into the thinking >>> proces >>> of >>> making things and technologies accessible. Anyone know a group of >>> students, >>> looking for an engineering progject? Just make sure, they are prepared >>> to >>> work with test-persons, even overseas. Likely you will need that, so as >>> to >>> get enough users, and test the equipment in use with as many activities >>> as >>> possible. >>> >>> OK, a few thoughts, more wil have to come later. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "cpond" <cpond@xxxxxxxxx> >>> To: <optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>> Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2012 5:01 PM >>> Subject: [optacon-l] Re: Optacon List Archives >>> >>> >>>> About twelve thousand optacons were manufactured. >>>> >>>> Charles >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Natalie >>>> Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2012 10:22 AM >>>> To: optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>> Subject: [optacon-l] Re: Optacon List Archives >>>> >>>> As someone pointed out, with the economy the way it is, the probability >>>> of >>>> new research and development is pretty limited, but I wonder if there's >>>> a >>>> way of finding other Optacons that people have just stashed away and >>>> forgotten. Does anybody know how many of both versions were originally >>>> produced? Maybe we could find some way of advertising for the ones >>>> that >>>> still exist. I remember I found five that were just hanging around in >>>> the >>>> background and were given to me. At least they could be used for parts >>>> if >>>> they no longer >>>> work. The people repairing them for us can certainly find a use for >>>> them. >>>> >>>> Natalie >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Catherine Thomas" <braille@xxxxxxxxx> >>>> To: "optacon list" <optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>> Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2012 10:09 AM >>>> Subject: [optacon-l] Optacon List Archives >>>> >>>> >>>>> The optacon-l list has an archives of all previous posts. Those new to >>>>> the list might enjoy browsing. You will find the answers to many >>>>> questions, many ideas for uses of the Optacon, and also information on >>>>> research and many other topics. Here is the archive site. >>>>> to view the list archives, go to: >>>>> >>>>> www.freelists.org/archives/optacon-l >>>>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- >>>>> -Catherine Thomas >>>>> braille@xxxxxxxxx / >>>>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >>>>> to view the list archives, go to: >>>>> >>>>> www.freelists.org/archives/optacon-l >>>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe at any time, just send a message to: >>>>> >>>>> optacon-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" (without >>>>> the >>>>> quotes) in the message subject. >>>>> >>>>> Tell your friends about the list. They can subscribe by sending a >>>>> message >>>>> to: >>>>> >>>>> optacon-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "subscribe" (without the >>>>> quotes) in the message subject. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature database 7657 (20121104) __________ >>>>> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature >>>> database 7657 (20121104) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> to view the list archives, go to: >>>> >>>> www.freelists.org/archives/optacon-l >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe at any time, just send a message to: >>>> >>>> optacon-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" (without >>>> the >>>> quotes) in the message subject. >>>> >>>> Tell your friends about the list. They can subscribe by sending a >>>> message >>>> to: >>>> >>>> optacon-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "subscribe" (without the >>>> quotes) in the message subject. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- >>>> >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2441/5371 - Release Date: 11/03/12 >>>> >>>> >>>> to view the list archives, go to: >>>> >>>> www.freelists.org/archives/optacon-l >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe at any time, just send a message to: >>>> >>>> optacon-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" (without >>>> the >>>> quotes) in the message subject. >>>> >>>> Tell your friends about the list. They can subscribe by sending a >>>> message >>>> to: >>>> >>>> optacon-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "subscribe" (without the >>>> quotes) in the message subject. >>>> >>> >>> to view the list archives, go to: >>> >>> www.freelists.org/archives/optacon-l >>> >>> To unsubscribe at any time, just send a message to: >>> >>> optacon-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" (without the >>> quotes) in the message subject. >>> >>> Tell your friends about the list. They can subscribe by sending a >>> message to: >>> >>> optacon-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "subscribe" (without the >>> quotes) in the message subject. >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Jyrki Voutilainen >> mailto:jykke.voutilainen@xxxxxxxxx >> Kotisivu/Homepage: http://www.jyrkivoutilainen.com/ >> Blogi/Blog: http://blogi.jyrkivoutilainen.com/ >> to view the list archives, go to: >> >> www.freelists.org/archives/optacon-l >> >> To unsubscribe at any time, just send a message to: >> >> optacon-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" (without the >> quotes) in the message subject. >> >> Tell your friends about the list. They can subscribe by sending a >> message >> to: >> >> optacon-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "subscribe" (without the >> quotes) in the message subject. >> > > to view the list archives, go to: > > www.freelists.org/archives/optacon-l > > To unsubscribe at any time, just send a message to: > > optacon-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" (without the > quotes) in the message subject. > > Tell your friends about the list. They can subscribe by sending a message > to: > > optacon-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "subscribe" (without the > quotes) in the message subject. > > to view the list archives, go to: > > www.freelists.org/archives/optacon-l > > To unsubscribe at any time, just send a message to: > > optacon-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" (without the > quotes) in the message subject. > > Tell your friends about the list. They can subscribe by sending a message > to: > > optacon-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "subscribe" (without the > quotes) in the message subject. > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 7657 (20121104) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 7658 (20121104) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com to view the list archives, go to: www.freelists.org/archives/optacon-l To unsubscribe at any time, just send a message to: optacon-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" (without the quotes) in the message subject. Tell your friends about the list. They can subscribe by sending a message to: optacon-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "subscribe" (without the quotes) in the message subject. to view the list archives, go to: www.freelists.org/archives/optacon-l To unsubscribe at any time, just send a message to: optacon-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" (without the quotes) in the message subject. Tell your friends about the list. They can subscribe by sending a message to: optacon-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "subscribe" (without the quotes) in the message subject.