[optacon-l] Re: Optacon List Archives
- From: "Natalie" <nataliej@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 15:42:39 -0500
I took out a personal loan to get my first Optacon and it was the best
decision I ever made. Don't know what I'd do without it now in my daily
life although I no longer read long books with it. Unfortunately a majority
of blind individuals seem to prefer to be read to with voice applications
and even find braille a drag. It's a trend that has gained a lot of
momentum with the computer and along with it comes terrible spelling. The
Optacon would have quite a fight to come back or improve but I still think
we might find others somewhere in dresser drawers or closets if we
advertised, say, at conventions. Unfortunately I don't go to them but it's
just an idea.
Natalie
----- Original Message -----
From: "H & C Arnold" <4carolyna@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2012 3:15 PM
Subject: [optacon-l] Re: Optacon List Archives
> What would Telesensory have to gain by clinging to their patent?
>
> We got a mortgage on a house in order to have the money for my first
> Optacon. For the second one, I applied for a no-interest loan at the local
> agency for the blind where I lived and paid it off in a year.
>
> DOG - Depend on God,
>
> Carolyn
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David" <elephant@xxxxxxxx>
> To: <optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2012 2:17 PM
> Subject: [optacon-l] Re: Optacon List Archives
>
>
> Well, I agree, it is no nice practice. Yet, that is the way things goe, in
> quite a few cases - even with other equipments. What's more, I some years
> ago, asked a colleague, if he knew of anyone who had an unused Optacon
> hanging around. And yes, for sure, he could readily point me to a person,
> who simply had stuck away the Optacon in the storage room. Could I please
> take it over? Oh, no! How could I ever dream of asking such a question,
> was
> the answer. The unit belonging to the authorities, it could not be
> overtaken
> by any other user. Another user passed away, and I thought now I could
> have
> a chance for getting my hands on a unit, before the trash bin grabbed its
> hold of it. Again, the answer was no. Since the Optacon is considered
> obsolete, the authorities refuse to redistribute any. And the users,
> refuses
> to give away the units, worrying they could get in trouble with the
> authorities. Wonder how many units are out there, that simply lingers
> around, without benefitting anyone. It's really a sad story. But I have
> seen
> it over and over again, with all sorts of stuff for the blind.It is a
> great
> thing to have the authorities, or a cherity organization pay your
> equipment,
> as you get your hands on stuff you would hardly ever have been able to
> dream
> of, otherwise. But, unfortunately, it often results in cases like here
> described. And, many times, it keeps the prices up on the new equipment.
> That is why, I think it would be great, if we could have a new model -
> fair
> enough priced for even normal people to buy it. If the developing could be
> done on an idealistic scale, and the project could have been open-sourced,
> we might even be able to see units on the market with prices down to the
> 1000 dollars or so. Still, it would mean a lift for a household budget,
> but
> it would be within the reach for most people. What's more, getting it
> fairly
> priced, would mean that more people would buy, hence the sale would come
> up
> a bit. Too high prices, only restricts the amount of sold units, calling
> for
> even higher prices. One of my biggest worries here is, that there does
> exist
> some kind of patent, that will block even idealistic people from building
> their new project on the Optacon design. Without me knowing anything about
> the matter, I guess even the whole idea of having a hand-held camera that
> transfers stuff to a unit, and this stuff being tactilized on a vibrating
> display - well even such a basic idea, can be patented. Depending on how
> hard Telesensory nagged on their patents, we might have to come up with
> real
> new ways of handling the matter. Only good thing is, that even patents,
> might be getting old these days, and at one point they will expire.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jyrki Voutilainen" <jykke.voutilainen@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2012 7:52 PM
> Subject: [optacon-l] Re: Optacon List Archives
>
>
>> Please forgive me, David and the list, but throwing still working units
>> to
>> the trash bin seems to me as something criminal and unforgivable, but of
>> course that's nobody's fault on this list!
>>
>> After reading this another time I was so upset that I made more typos
>> than
>> usual that I had to correct, but still, nobody on this list kan be
>> blamed,
>> only the authorities!
>>
>> On Sun, 4 Nov 2012, David wrote:
>>
>>> Hmm, Well. Puts things in a bit of a perspective. Ecconomically, if
>>> there
>>> was 12000 units manufactured, and I bet quite a few of them have
>>> retired,
>>> there might not be more than maybe a thousand left with active users.
>>> Something I really regret, since I have been an active user for 25
>>> years,
>>> these days. And what's more, I have used the Optacon for quite a few
>>> things
>>> more than what it normally would have been used for. It thrills me to
>>> see,
>>> that several other users here, have been using their units for extended
>>> activities as well.
>>>
>>> Getting hold of "stashed-away" units, might prove a bit of a challenge.
>>> Specially so, due to the fact that the manufacturing was discontinued
>>> about
>>> 15 years ago. Locally here, it was the authorities that paid for the
>>> Optacon, and all training programs. That meant, that whenever you no
>>> longer
>>> did need your Optacon, or did not want it anymore, you had to return it
>>> to
>>> the authorities. And what did they do with the units returned? Last time
>>> I
>>> called them (about 10 years ago), they told me that they simply through
>>> the
>>> units in the trassh bin. My question was why, and they told me, they had
>>> no
>>> program for refurbishing the units, did not want to send them out of the
>>> country for repairs, and had no money set aside for the purpose.
>>> Legally,
>>> I
>>> am not even allowed to send my unit out of the country for repair,
>>> although
>>> I doubt they even will have it filed any longer, due to them reckon the
>>> Optacon as an obsolete assisting technology. Well, I won't be speaking
>>> for
>>> all other countries, but I know of a couple of places where similar
>>> situations will have to be dealt with. In fact, even if I did not want
>>> my
>>> Optacon any longer, I am legally not permitted to sell or give it away,
>>> even
>>> to other users locally, that could have benefitted. I am, by the power
>>> of
>>> the local laws, obliged to return it to the authorities - only to see
>>> them
>>> drop it in the trash bin. Well, that is the hard side of the story.
>>>
>>> Now, for the dreamy side of the world, it is quite interesting that the
>>> discussion came up right now. Only a couple of days ago, it crossed my
>>> mind,
>>> why we haven't seen more activity lately, when comes to re-invent the
>>> Optacon. For one thing, there is the matter of time. Many of the old
>>> users
>>> who firstly embraced the technologic break-through of the Optacon - way
>>> back
>>> in the early 70's - will not be among us any longer. And even if they
>>> are,
>>> they will be quite grown-up people by now, meaning that they hardly will
>>> be
>>> too active users any longer. Forgive me, list members, if anyone of you
>>> fall
>>> into this category, and feel that I am a bit off-tracked here. But I
>>> just
>>> know a few cases personally, where this is the case.
>>>
>>> The fact of main-stream products becoming quite cheap and accessible, is
>>> another factor that plays its role in here. Many a user of the Optacon
>>> in
>>> the 70's and 80's, never got anything further but to read their phone
>>> bills,
>>> a letter or two every month, and maybe a few recipes. All of this, they
>>> can
>>> quickly, effortlessly and easily do by means of their computer and
>>> scanner,
>>> these days. I doubt we will have an easy task in convincing them, that
>>> they
>>> need to do the interpretation themselves, and even do their reading with
>>> "yet another unit".
>>>
>>> Well, then there is the change in the flow of information. I do hold,
>>> that
>>> today there is a fair amount of information, for which we did use our
>>> Optacons back in the 80's - but for which we hardly would bother
>>> bringing
>>> out the unit today. How many of you, do actually sit down and read
>>> fliers
>>> and newspaper advertisments with the Optacon, since most of it will be
>>> available on your computer, directly from the net. Or, what about the
>>> phone
>>> directory, that we used to get from the phone company, every once a
>>> year.
>>> Over here, they haven't even bothered to distribute it, the last few
>>> years.
>>> Why? sSimply because it is all there, right on the net. And honestly,
>>> why
>>> would I use half an hour on fooling around with small print in the phone
>>> directory, when I can get my friends three phone numbers from the net,
>>> in
>>> thirty seconds?
>>>
>>> So, to convince the authorities to even consider paying for any new
>>> Optacon-like technology, I would have to come up with pretty good
>>> arguments.
>>> And, even in places where the authorities do not pay, my guess is, that
>>> it
>>> often would have been cherity organizations, who paid for the Optacon.
>>> And
>>> they likely, will demand a certain kind of reasons, again to start
>>> giving
>>> out units.
>>>
>>> Am I saying all of this to discourage further development? Absolutely
>>> NO!
>>> All I want to point out, is that likely there will be quite a few
>>> challenges
>>> in getting these units paid for. This fact, added on to the fact of very
>>> few
>>> users, will call for any new technology to be reasonably priced. Taking
>>> into
>>> consideration, the low prices on electronic equipment these days - when
>>> you
>>> can get an MP3-player for something under ten US dollars on places like
>>> EBay, there might just exist a reasonable chance for an affordable price
>>> on
>>> a new Optacon-model. Reality, though, has taught me a fairly different
>>> story. Even the more recent attempts to come up with hand-held - or
>>> stand-alone - readers for the blind, have dearly failed in being offered
>>> for
>>> affordable prices. A few years ago, I read about a hand-held equipment,
>>> which supposedly is not much bigger than a computer mouse, and which
>>> would
>>> be used for reading of plain text. It is called TopBraille. I got
>>> inthusiastic about the idea, and contacted the local dealer. They were
>>> quite
>>> helpful, in informing me that the price was - ONLY 3000 US Dollars.
>>> Sorry,
>>> guys, but forget about asking this - out of a plain normal household
>>> budget.
>>> And, definitely so, since it was an "interpretting unit", meaning that
>>> it
>>> held a piece of OCR built-in. This way, it cannot be used for diagrams,
>>> drawings, shape recognition - and all the other fun we have with our
>>> dear
>>> Optacon units. Yet another "helpful" piece of technology for assisting
>>> blind
>>> people in their reading activity, was recently introduced on the market.
>>> At
>>> the moment, I don't recall its exact name, but wonder if it was
>>> something
>>> like EasyReader. Again, the blind community was asking the price, and
>>> ended
>>> up shocked - when learning it to cost something like 2500 dollars. And,
>>> again, it was an "interpretting unit".
>>>
>>> If we want a replacement for the Optacon, I would say, let us at least
>>> demand it to be like the Optacon. With modern technology and
>>> electronics,
>>> maybe even with a new invention for a more quiet operation. But let us
>>> stick
>>> to a none-interpretting piece of equipment - leaving all interpretation
>>> to
>>> the human brain. No electronics or software, will ever be able to
>>> out-range
>>> that master-piece of creation, after all.
>>>
>>> Now, we could have wished for the good old Optacon to simply be put back
>>> into production. After all, it has had 4 decades on proving its
>>> durability.
>>> And its functionality. I wonder, though, if there is certain patents,
>>> that
>>> will block such a dream. Besides, modern technology, might be a good
>>> thing.
>>> Just imagine if your Optacon could be running for 50 hours, on one
>>> charge.
>>> Or, if the vibrating display could please be made less noisy. That would
>>> even mean, that you can sit in the living room, doing your reading,
>>> without
>>> disturbing the rest of the household, in their TV watching. And, what if
>>> it
>>> could be made half the size and weight. I don't think any of this is
>>> unrealistic ideas, long as you make full use of modern technology. Just
>>> look
>>> at a cell phone, or a computer, developing through the same 4 decades -
>>> or
>>> even less.
>>>
>>> The ideas of making the project open-sourced, and maybe even partially
>>> run
>>> it on an idealistic basis - I really embrace. Unfortunately, none of the
>>> attempts seen inside the blind world, has been applying any such ideas.
>>> As
>>> shown above, we over and over again, are presented with nice products,
>>> that
>>> are way over-priced. What I could have thought of, as a solution here,
>>> is
>>> if
>>> we could have got some university students interested. Maybe they could
>>> do
>>> the invention as a project, being part of their graduation. That way, we
>>> would have low costs, in developing and testing the model. As with many
>>> other projects, it is the developing of a product, that is the real
>>> hungry
>>> ecconomic Caterpillar. Looking on all the other more or less useless
>>> stuff
>>> students are trying to develop, this would at least make some real
>>> sense.
>>> Besides, it would bring those students a far way into the thinking
>>> proces
>>> of
>>> making things and technologies accessible. Anyone know a group of
>>> students,
>>> looking for an engineering progject? Just make sure, they are prepared
>>> to
>>> work with test-persons, even overseas. Likely you will need that, so as
>>> to
>>> get enough users, and test the equipment in use with as many activities
>>> as
>>> possible.
>>>
>>> OK, a few thoughts, more wil have to come later.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "cpond" <cpond@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: <optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2012 5:01 PM
>>> Subject: [optacon-l] Re: Optacon List Archives
>>>
>>>
>>>> About twelve thousand optacons were manufactured.
>>>>
>>>> Charles
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Natalie
>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2012 10:22 AM
>>>> To: optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: [optacon-l] Re: Optacon List Archives
>>>>
>>>> As someone pointed out, with the economy the way it is, the probability
>>>> of
>>>> new research and development is pretty limited, but I wonder if there's
>>>> a
>>>> way of finding other Optacons that people have just stashed away and
>>>> forgotten. Does anybody know how many of both versions were originally
>>>> produced? Maybe we could find some way of advertising for the ones
>>>> that
>>>> still exist. I remember I found five that were just hanging around in
>>>> the
>>>> background and were given to me. At least they could be used for parts
>>>> if
>>>> they no longer
>>>> work. The people repairing them for us can certainly find a use for
>>>> them.
>>>>
>>>> Natalie
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Catherine Thomas" <braille@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> To: "optacon list" <optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2012 10:09 AM
>>>> Subject: [optacon-l] Optacon List Archives
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The optacon-l list has an archives of all previous posts. Those new to
>>>>> the list might enjoy browsing. You will find the answers to many
>>>>> questions, many ideas for uses of the Optacon, and also information on
>>>>> research and many other topics. Here is the archive site.
>>>>> to view the list archives, go to:
>>>>>
>>>>> www.freelists.org/archives/optacon-l
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> -Catherine Thomas
>>>>> braille@xxxxxxxxx /
>>>>>
>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> to view the list archives, go to:
>>>>>
>>>>> www.freelists.org/archives/optacon-l
>>>>>
>>>>> To unsubscribe at any time, just send a message to:
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>>>>>
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>>>
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>>>
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>>
>> --
>> Jyrki Voutilainen
>> mailto:jykke.voutilainen@xxxxxxxxx
>> Kotisivu/Homepage: http://www.jyrkivoutilainen.com/
>> Blogi/Blog: http://blogi.jyrkivoutilainen.com/
>> to view the list archives, go to:
>>
>> www.freelists.org/archives/optacon-l
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>
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