[muglo] Re: Safari sunstroke?
- From: Ilbert Walker <walker@xxxxxxxx>
- To: muglo@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 22:54:21 -0500
On 11 Jan 2004, at 11:14 AM, Eric D wrote:
>> I found another user on the Apple Support Discussion site with a G4
>> and
>> the very same problem.
>> From that site it's obviously many are dissatisfied with Safari and
>> it's instability
>
> It's funny how each browser attracts its own group of detractors and
> proponents. Of the Mac browsers, the most effective is IE. I find that
> many
> of the more complex sites are only compatible with MS IE. We Mac users
> are
> in serious trouble if a future OS X version ever breaks MS IE and MS
> doesn't
> fix it.
>
I think it's only a matter of time before MS discontinue support of Mac
IE - as they have already done for Outlook Express for OSX. The
writing is on the wall
> Of the others, Safari is perhaps the most useful for 95% of day-to-day
> browsing. A few sites are now still only compatible with Camino or
> other
> Mozilla-based browsers (and, of course, IE). Mozilla is good but it's
> too
> bloated and un-Mac-like, Netscrape is not quite as good as Mozilla and
> it
> too is horribly bloated and moderately un-Mac-like (not as much as
> Moz).
> FireBird is showing potential (but is still pretty unstable) and my
> personal
> hope is that Camino and FireBird join forces. Camino is a mature
> browser on
> the Mac side and should (could) serve as the GUI for FireBird. Mozilla
> is
> dieing. Long live FireBird!
I find so many browsers coming from the same source confusing. Are you
saying that Camino was designed for Mac Users ?
>
> I can't really comment on IE's stability since I don't use it much at
> all
> (except for tough web sites) but this is my experience with the web
> browsers
> for stability (having used the lot of 'em):
>
> Safari > Camino ~ iCab ~ OmniWeb (may be changing since they are
> incorporating KDE) > Netscape ~ Mozilla > FireBird
>
Thankyou for this grading . Omniweb is also appealing to me - can you
explain want KDE means please . Will this threaten the future of it for
Mac users do you think ? It urks me to have to shell out for software
which Apple could/should have built in with the system. Ditto
regarding the Mail programme which is equally buggy. Am exploring
Thunderbird as a bought alternative - or GyazMail.
> I'm sure the knee-jerk anti-Microsoftees will take exception and seek
> to
> defend Netscrash/Mozilla. They are browsers with significant potential
> but
> their bloat simply makes them useless. Cutting out the composer and
> e-mailer
> function will make Mozilla *much* better (and also allow programmers to
> focus on what is important in Mozilla -- the HTML rendering engine).
> Mozilla
> is good because it gives you cutting edge HTML support (which you'll
> never
> find) but Netscrash is useless since it doesn't give you anything
> cutting
> edge and all you get for your pain is an ugly non-Mac interface and
> extreme
> bloat. IE is suffering from a lack of attention. It's still operating
> with a
> 2000/2001-era code base and has only had a few (minor) updates over
> the past
> three years.
And yet, as I understand it, Netscape forms the basis for Safari ?
And certainly the Firebird overnight updates and general level of
support and active development by the Mozilla crowd seem to be in
another world compared with the help from Apple that disgruntled Safari
users obtain ?
>
> If you want a web site to test out the HTML robustness (not HTML
> compliance!!!) of a browser, go to http://www.needahotel.com,
> car-rental
> places or air-line booking sites. Only IE does them all (fortunately
> 3/4
> work with Safari/Camino). I've also found a few other sites that
> prefer IE
> (or Safari with slightly less functionality... KDE is a pretty damned
> robust
> rendering engine... where Mozilla et al. fail). I've only found *one*
> site
> in recent memory which didn't work in a single Mac browser (including
> IE)
> and required me to fire up VPC and run IE 5.5.
>
>> I'll try the Prefs delete and see what happens. But at present
>> exploring other recommended browsers like Camino, Firebird and Omniweb
>> - which I gather are more regularly updated and improved
>
> You'll find only OmniWeb to be in the same league as Safari for some
> things
> (Safari has best toolbar implementation but Camino has the best
> browsing
> implementation since you can get rid of the toolbar completely). Camino
> development has stalled in recent months (since Safari has taken over)
> and
> has a number of stability issues and FireBird is still quite unstable
> and
> not ready yet if you're worried about stability. I don't think
> FireBird will
> *ever* be up to Mac quality (just like Netscape 7.1 is not a GUI
> quality
> Mac-app) unless the Camino developers get their hands on it and clean
> up the
> GUI (the Communicator/Netscrape heritage) to raise it to Mac OS
> X-standards.
This seems to relate to my other question for you - which is the best ,
long term option for Mac Users?
My inclination in starting with OSX was to try to stick with native
Apple applications which (mistakenly ?) I feel would have been made
more compatible with the Unix base ?
Now I'm beginning to wonder.
>
> I would also advise you to check out iCab. It's not as snazzy as some
> of the
> others but it offers an entirely different browsing experience (it's a
> one-man show) and there are a lot of people who swear by it. It's
> fairly
> stable (same leage as Camino/Moz/Netscape) to boot.
>
Yes I've heard of it -but couldn't open my downloaded copy . Will try
again. But I'm reluctant to rely on a small outfit which may not
survive - or be bought out by the bigger sharks, and discontinued. I'm
wanting long term security - if such is conceivable in the software
world :-)
> OmniWeb is great for some people but for a lot of others it's
> half-assed. I
> find that Safari now has the best implementation of tabbed browsing,
> closely
> followed by Camino (Netscape/Mozilla are ATROCIOUS since the coders
> don't
> know what to do with the ugly Communicator toolbar/URL bar)
>
>> Having once recently lost all my Bookmarks with a G5 User ID problem,
>> I've also just bought URL Manager Pro which has a safer and wider ,
>> multi-browser use
>
> I love it when I manage to lose my bookmarks (a chance to start over).
> What
> I do is make a web page with the important bookmarks. Less important
> ones
> are found with: www.google.com ;) (of course, I've mastered some of
> Google's
> more advanced search features :)
>
> Eric.
>
Thanks again for your time and interest in making this helpful, lengthy
and detailed reply , Eric. It's appreciated.
Ciao
Ilbert
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