[bksvol-discuss] Re: Need to clarify header/footer processing logic
- From: Grandma Cindy <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 18:43:41 -0800 (PST)
For your reading pleasure--you can choose from the
following, grin: Teach With Your Heart, a well-written
autobiography of the Freedom Writers teacher;; First
Ladies (about the Presidents' wives and their
husbands--nicely written and interesting with persnal
facts); Transsexuals: Candid questions and answers
(with this one I didn't change fonts and stuff as I
usually do); Running out of Time (Young Adult--do you
have kids, Guido?); Flambards (same).
I'll stop there. smile
G. Cindy
-- Guido Corona <guidoc@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Cindy, could you point me to a book where you have
> used your method? I'd
> like to see what the header/footer processor has
> done with it.
>
> G.
>
>
> Guido Dante Corona
> IBM Research,
> Human Ability & Accessibility Center, (HA&AC)
> Austin Tx.
> Phone: 512. 838. 9735.
> Email: guidoc@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Web: http://www.ibm.com/able
>
> ". . . Maybe it was only those who were most certain
> they were right who
> were guaranteed to be wrong. And that maybe, just
> maybe, those who
> questioned the most were in the end those who came
> closest to being wise."
> [David Poyer, The Command]
>
>
>
>
> Grandma Cindy <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
> Sent by: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> 01/13/2008 07:40 PM
> Please respond to
> bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
> To
> bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> cc
>
> Subject
> [bksvol-discuss] Re: Need to clarify header/footer
> processing logic
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks for seeking a clarification, because I've
> been
> doing it blank line 1, page number, blank line, then
> text or chapter title. I leave two line spaces
> between
> chapter title and first line of chapter, but that's
> irrelevant to the subject under discussion.
>
> I've been moving page numbers to the top of the
> page,
> since Lissi said, and people have agreed, that that
> makes it easier for them to read them, but I do
> leave
> a blank line between the last line of test and the
> page break. If I've been doing it incorrectly, I'll
> change my ways. smile
>
> G.Cindy
>
> --- Guido Corona <guidoc@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > My understanding is instead the following:
> >
> > for running headers:
> >
> > Absolute line 1 on the page contains a page
> number.
> > Line 2 remains blank.
> >
> > or in case of footer:
> >
> > very bottom line of the page contains a page
> number.
> > Line above is blank.
> >
> > This is slightly different from what some others
> > understand. As I said, I
> > will seek clarification on the issue.
> >
> > G.
> >
> > Guido Dante Corona
> > IBM Research,
> > Human Ability & Accessibility Center, (HA&AC)
> > Austin Tx.
> > Phone: 512. 838. 9735.
> > Email: guidoc@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > Web: http://www.ibm.com/able
> >
> > ". . . Maybe it was only those who were most
> certain
> > they were right who
> > were guaranteed to be wrong. And that maybe, just
> > maybe, those who
> > questioned the most were in the end those who came
> > closest to being wise."
> > [David Poyer, The Command]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Pratik Patel" <pratikp1@xxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent by: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > 01/13/2008 05:53 PM
> > Please respond to
> > bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> >
> > To
> > <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > cc
> >
> > Subject
> > [bksvol-discuss] Re: Need to clarify header/footer
> > processing logic
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > This is my direct understanding of the logic. We
> > have discussed the need
> > to
> > have the blank lines for best HTML formatting.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> > Behalf Of Grandma Cindy
> > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 5:22 PM
> > To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Need to clarify
> > header/footer processing
> > logic
> >
> > If one reads it carefully (a big if I suppose)
> it's
> > clear. The header or footer would be the first or
> > last
> > line of *text* if it's followed by a blank line,
> or
> > line space. grin
> >
> > G.Cindy
> >
> >
> > --- Guido Corona <guidoc@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > > The following lines in the volunteer manual may
> be
> > > some source of
> > > confusion:
> > >
> > > > a.. Make sure that if a page contains a
> header
> > > that the header is the
> > > > first line of text on the page.
> > > > b.. Make sure that if a page contains a
> footer
> > > that the footer is the
> > > > last line of text on the page.
> > >
> > >
> > > . . .
> > >
> > > > a.. Make sure there is a blank line before
> > > headers
> > > > b.. Make sure there is a blank line after
> > > footers
> > >
> > > As this is not exactly my understanding of the
> > logic
> > > of the header/footer
> > > processor, I will seek a direct interpretation
> > from
> > > the engineering
> > > department.
> > >
> > > G.
> > >
> > >
> > > Guido Dante Corona
> > > IBM Research,
> > > Human Ability & Accessibility Center, (HA&AC)
> > > Austin Tx.
> > > Phone: 512. 838. 9735.
> > > Email: guidoc@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Web: http://www.ibm.com/able
> > >
> > > ". . . Maybe it was only those who were most
> > certain
> > > they were right who
> > > were guaranteed to be wrong. And that maybe,
> just
> > > maybe, those who
> > > questioned the most were in the end those who
> came
> > > closest to being wise."
> > > [David Poyer, The Command]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Tracy Carcione" <carcione@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Sent by: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > 01/12/2008 03:40 PM
> > > Please respond to
> > > bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >
> > >
> > > To
> > > bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > cc
> > >
> > > Subject
> > > [bksvol-discuss] Re: Book without blank lines at
>
> > > top/bottom of pages
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jake,
> > > I thought there needed to be a blank line
> *after*
> > > headers, and before
> > > footers. Is this wrong?
> > > So, I thought the page number had to be in the
> > > first, or last line, of a
> > > page, and, when it's on the top, be followed by
> a
> > > blank line.
> > > For an example, you could see my validations of
> > The
> > > Inimatble Jeeves, or
> > > of The Catcher From Double-A.
> > >
> > > How depressing, if I've been doing it wrong all
> > > these years.
> > > Tracy
> > >
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > > Pratik is correct in that blank lines at the
> > tops
> > > and bottoms of pages
> > > > help ensure a high quality HTML file (derived
> > from
> > > the DAISY). I am not
> > > > aware of any changes since we last observed
> that
> > > this was accurate. Page
> > > > headers/footers should be the first or last
> > actual
> > > text on the page.
> > > After
> > > > my signature, I have included the portion of
> the
> > > volunteer manual that
> > > > discusses this.
> > > >
> > > > Sincerely,
> > > > Jake
> > > >
> > > > Jake Brownell
> > > > jakeb@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > >
> > > > 3.3.6 Feel Free To Clean Up Running Headers
> And
> > > Footers
> > > > When a book is uploaded after validation, the
> > Book
> > > Is processed by a
> > > tool
> > > > which attempts to do four things:
> > > >
> > > > 1.. Identify recurring text at the top and
> > > bottom of each page known
> > > as
> > > > "running headers and footers"
> > > > 2.. Identify page numbers in the running
> > headers
> > > and footers
> > > > 3.. Remove text from running headers and
> > footers
> > > > 4.. Process the page numbers to allow easier
> > > navigation of DAISY books
> > > > and include original page numbers in BRF books
> > > > Volunteers can assist this tool by insuring
> that
> > > headers and footers are
> > > > consistent throughout the book.
> > > >
> > > > a.. Capitalization should be used
> consistently
> > > throughout headers and
> > > > footers
> > > > b.. Tabs and spaces should be used
> > consistently
> > > throughout headers and
> > > > footers
> > > > c.. Page numbers and text in each header or
> > > footer should be on the
> > > same
> > > > line
> > > > d.. Page numbers should be separated from
> text
> > > in a header or footer
> > > by
> > > > a space or tab
> > > > Note that the text will be removed by the tool
> > if
> > > it is consistent, so
> > > the
> > > > easiest way to insure that the tool can
> identify
> > > page numbers is to
> > > remove
> > > > the text from running headers and footers.
> This
> > is
> > > not only much easier
> > > > for volunteers, but makes the tool's job
> simpler
> > > as well.
> > > >
> > > > If you wish to clean up headers and footers,
> > > please do the following for
> > > > each page containing a header or footer:
> > > >
> > > > a.. Make sure that if a page contains a
> header
> > > that the header is the
> > > > first line of text on the page.
> > > > b.. Make sure that if a page contains a
> footer
> > > that the footer is the
> > > > last line of text on the page.
> > > > Note that lines containing punctuation marks
> or
> > > symbols, such as hyphens
> > > > and asterisks, are considered lines of text.
> > > >
> > > > The following will also help prevent issues
> with
> > > page numbers in HTML
> > > > files when creating an HTML file using the
> > > Bookshare.org Unpack Tool:
> > > >
> > > > a.. Make sure there is a blank line before
> > > headers
> > > > b.. Make sure there is a blank line after
> > > footers
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Pratik Patel
> > > > To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 12:07 AM
> > > > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Book without
> > blank
> > > lines at top/bottom
> > > of
> > > > pages
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hello all,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Based on the confusion, I'll do some tests
> > over
> > > the weekend and report
> > > > back.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Pratik
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On
> > > Behalf Of Guido Corona
> > > > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 9:43 PM
> > > > To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Book without
> > blank
> > > lines at top/bottom
> > > of
> > > > pages
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Allison, the header processor is actually
> > > supposed to eat up headers;
> > > > it should then extract page numbers and place
> > them
> > > into the DAISY code,
> > > > so that DAISY readers can go to the real page
> > > 4456, instead of the
> > > > 456th page from the beginning of the file.
> > > >
> > > > G.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Guido Dante Corona
> > > > IBM Research,
> > > > Human Ability & Accessibility Center,
> > (HA&AC)
> > > > Austin Tx.
> > > > Phone: 512. 838. 9735.
> > > > Email: guidoc@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > Web: http://www.ibm.com/able
> > > >
> > > > ". . . Maybe it was only those who were most
> > > certain they were right
> > > who
> > > > were guaranteed to be wrong. And that maybe,
> > just
> > > maybe, those who
> > > > questioned the most were in the end those who
> > came
> > > closest to being
> > > > wise."
> > > > [David Poyer, The Command]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Allison Hilliker"
> > > <bookshare_girl@xxxxxxx>
> > > > Sent by:
> > > bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > >
> > > > 01/11/2008 06:06 PM
> > > >
> > > > Please respond to
> > > > bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > >
> > > > To
> > > > <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > >
> > > > cc
> > > >
> > > > Subject
> > > > [bksvol-discuss] Re: Book without
> > > blank lines at top/bottom
> > > > of pages
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I have been a validator for about 3 or 4
> years
> > > now and really don't
> > > pay
> > > > attention to blank line placements, and I've
> > not
> > > had any trouble with
> > > > the
> > > > stripper eating my page numbers.
> > > >
> > > > Best,
> > > > Allison
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "E." <thoth93@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 2:14 PM
> > > > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Book without
> > blank
> > > lines at top/bottom
> > > of
> > > > pages
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > How does this no needing of blank lines
> > match
> > > up with the need to
> > > put
> > > > in
> > > > > blank lines around page breaks and page
> > > numbers so that the stripper
> > > > does
> > > > > not remove said page numbers. If I am
> > confused
> > > I can only imagine
> > > how
> > > > new
> > > > > validators feel. (sigh no grin)
> > > > >
> > > > > E.
> > > > >
> > > > > At 04:02 PM 1/11/2008, you wrote:
> > > > >>Hi Sue,
> > > > >>
> > > > >>You bring up an important question. Let
> me
> > > clarify what I meant in
> > > my
> > > > >>earlier post. Page breaks are absolutely
> > > required. That has not
> > > > change.
> > > > >>I
> > > > >>didn't mean to imply otherwise. What
> > > Christine was asking about, or
> > > > what
> > > > >>I
> > > > >>believe she was asking about, was whether
> or
> > > not a blank line needed
> > > > to be
> > > > >>included at the beginning and end of every
> > > page. These blank lines
> > > > would
> > > > >>be
> > > > >>in addition to any page breaks. These
> > blanks
> > > are not necessary. In
> > > > >>short,
> > > > >>the page breaks are required, and the
> blank
> > > lines are not.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>Hope this helps clear things up.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>Best,
> > > > >>
> > > > >>Allison Hilliker:
> > > > >>Intern, Benetech (Bookshare.org).
> > > > >>E-mail allisonh@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > >>www.bookshare.org
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> ----- Original Message ----- From:
> > "siss52"
> > > <siss52@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > >>To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > >>Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 12:37 PM
> > > > >>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Book without
> > > blank lines at top/bottom
> > > > of
> > > > >>pages
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>Hi Allison,
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>If this is true, has bookshare changed
> > their
> > > policy about page
> > > > breaks? I
> > > > >>>thought they were not accepting books
> that
> > > lacked page breaks.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>Best,
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>Sue S.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>----- O
> > > > >>>riginal Message ----- From: "Allison
> > > Hilliker"
> > > > <bookshare_girl@xxxxxxx>
> > > > >>>To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > >>>Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 1:31 PM
> > > > >>>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Book
> without
> > > blank lines at
> > > top/bottom
> > > > of
> > > > >>>pages
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>Hi Christine,
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>A book not having blank lines at the
> > > beginning and ends of pages is
> > > > not
> > > > >>>cause for rejection. True, the blanks
> can
> > be
> > > helpful, but they are
> > > > not
> > > > >>>necessary. I verified
> > > > >>>this fact with another Bookshare staff
> > > member. I'll also note that
> > > > the
> > > > >>>volunteer manual sets forth no
> requirements
> > > relating to this issue.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>Best,
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>Allison Hilliker:
> > > > >>>Intern, Benetech (Bookshare.org).
> > > > >>>E-mail allisonh@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > >>>www.bookshare.org
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>To unsubscribe from this list send a
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