[bksvol-discuss] Re: Need to clarify header/footer processing logic
- From: Grandma Cindy <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 17:40:32 -0800 (PST)
Thanks for seeking a clarification, because I've been
doing it blank line 1, page number, blank line, then
text or chapter title. I leave two line spaces between
chapter title and first line of chapter, but that's
irrelevant to the subject under discussion.
I've been moving page numbers to the top of the page,
since Lissi said, and people have agreed, that that
makes it easier for them to read them, but I do leave
a blank line between the last line of test and the
page break. If I've been doing it incorrectly, I'll
change my ways. smile
G.Cindy
--- Guido Corona <guidoc@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> My understanding is instead the following:
>
> for running headers:
>
> Absolute line 1 on the page contains a page number.
> Line 2 remains blank.
>
> or in case of footer:
>
> very bottom line of the page contains a page number.
> Line above is blank.
>
> This is slightly different from what some others
> understand. As I said, I
> will seek clarification on the issue.
>
> G.
>
> Guido Dante Corona
> IBM Research,
> Human Ability & Accessibility Center, (HA&AC)
> Austin Tx.
> Phone: 512. 838. 9735.
> Email: guidoc@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Web: http://www.ibm.com/able
>
> ". . . Maybe it was only those who were most certain
> they were right who
> were guaranteed to be wrong. And that maybe, just
> maybe, those who
> questioned the most were in the end those who came
> closest to being wise."
> [David Poyer, The Command]
>
>
>
>
> "Pratik Patel" <pratikp1@xxxxxxxxx>
> Sent by: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> 01/13/2008 05:53 PM
> Please respond to
> bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
> To
> <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> cc
>
> Subject
> [bksvol-discuss] Re: Need to clarify header/footer
> processing logic
>
>
>
>
>
>
> This is my direct understanding of the logic. We
> have discussed the need
> to
> have the blank lines for best HTML formatting.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Grandma Cindy
> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 5:22 PM
> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Need to clarify
> header/footer processing
> logic
>
> If one reads it carefully (a big if I suppose) it's
> clear. The header or footer would be the first or
> last
> line of *text* if it's followed by a blank line, or
> line space. grin
>
> G.Cindy
>
>
> --- Guido Corona <guidoc@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > The following lines in the volunteer manual may be
> > some source of
> > confusion:
> >
> > > a.. Make sure that if a page contains a header
> > that the header is the
> > > first line of text on the page.
> > > b.. Make sure that if a page contains a footer
> > that the footer is the
> > > last line of text on the page.
> >
> >
> > . . .
> >
> > > a.. Make sure there is a blank line before
> > headers
> > > b.. Make sure there is a blank line after
> > footers
> >
> > As this is not exactly my understanding of the
> logic
> > of the header/footer
> > processor, I will seek a direct interpretation
> from
> > the engineering
> > department.
> >
> > G.
> >
> >
> > Guido Dante Corona
> > IBM Research,
> > Human Ability & Accessibility Center, (HA&AC)
> > Austin Tx.
> > Phone: 512. 838. 9735.
> > Email: guidoc@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > Web: http://www.ibm.com/able
> >
> > ". . . Maybe it was only those who were most
> certain
> > they were right who
> > were guaranteed to be wrong. And that maybe, just
> > maybe, those who
> > questioned the most were in the end those who came
> > closest to being wise."
> > [David Poyer, The Command]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Tracy Carcione" <carcione@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent by: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > 01/12/2008 03:40 PM
> > Please respond to
> > bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> >
> > To
> > bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > cc
> >
> > Subject
> > [bksvol-discuss] Re: Book without blank lines at
> > top/bottom of pages
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Jake,
> > I thought there needed to be a blank line *after*
> > headers, and before
> > footers. Is this wrong?
> > So, I thought the page number had to be in the
> > first, or last line, of a
> > page, and, when it's on the top, be followed by a
> > blank line.
> > For an example, you could see my validations of
> The
> > Inimatble Jeeves, or
> > of The Catcher From Double-A.
> >
> > How depressing, if I've been doing it wrong all
> > these years.
> > Tracy
> >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > Pratik is correct in that blank lines at the
> tops
> > and bottoms of pages
> > > help ensure a high quality HTML file (derived
> from
> > the DAISY). I am not
> > > aware of any changes since we last observed that
> > this was accurate. Page
> > > headers/footers should be the first or last
> actual
> > text on the page.
> > After
> > > my signature, I have included the portion of the
> > volunteer manual that
> > > discusses this.
> > >
> > > Sincerely,
> > > Jake
> > >
> > > Jake Brownell
> > > jakeb@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >
> > > 3.3.6 Feel Free To Clean Up Running Headers And
> > Footers
> > > When a book is uploaded after validation, the
> Book
> > Is processed by a
> > tool
> > > which attempts to do four things:
> > >
> > > 1.. Identify recurring text at the top and
> > bottom of each page known
> > as
> > > "running headers and footers"
> > > 2.. Identify page numbers in the running
> headers
> > and footers
> > > 3.. Remove text from running headers and
> footers
> > > 4.. Process the page numbers to allow easier
> > navigation of DAISY books
> > > and include original page numbers in BRF books
> > > Volunteers can assist this tool by insuring that
> > headers and footers are
> > > consistent throughout the book.
> > >
> > > a.. Capitalization should be used consistently
> > throughout headers and
> > > footers
> > > b.. Tabs and spaces should be used
> consistently
> > throughout headers and
> > > footers
> > > c.. Page numbers and text in each header or
> > footer should be on the
> > same
> > > line
> > > d.. Page numbers should be separated from text
> > in a header or footer
> > by
> > > a space or tab
> > > Note that the text will be removed by the tool
> if
> > it is consistent, so
> > the
> > > easiest way to insure that the tool can identify
> > page numbers is to
> > remove
> > > the text from running headers and footers. This
> is
> > not only much easier
> > > for volunteers, but makes the tool's job simpler
> > as well.
> > >
> > > If you wish to clean up headers and footers,
> > please do the following for
> > > each page containing a header or footer:
> > >
> > > a.. Make sure that if a page contains a header
> > that the header is the
> > > first line of text on the page.
> > > b.. Make sure that if a page contains a footer
> > that the footer is the
> > > last line of text on the page.
> > > Note that lines containing punctuation marks or
> > symbols, such as hyphens
> > > and asterisks, are considered lines of text.
> > >
> > > The following will also help prevent issues with
> > page numbers in HTML
> > > files when creating an HTML file using the
> > Bookshare.org Unpack Tool:
> > >
> > > a.. Make sure there is a blank line before
> > headers
> > > b.. Make sure there is a blank line after
> > footers
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Pratik Patel
> > > To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 12:07 AM
> > > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Book without
> blank
> > lines at top/bottom
> > of
> > > pages
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello all,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Based on the confusion, I'll do some tests
> over
> > the weekend and report
> > > back.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Pratik
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> > Behalf Of Guido Corona
> > > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 9:43 PM
> > > To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Book without
> blank
> > lines at top/bottom
> > of
> > > pages
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Allison, the header processor is actually
> > supposed to eat up headers;
> > > it should then extract page numbers and place
> them
> > into the DAISY code,
> > > so that DAISY readers can go to the real page
> > 4456, instead of the
> > > 456th page from the beginning of the file.
> > >
> > > G.
> > >
> > >
> > > Guido Dante Corona
> > > IBM Research,
> > > Human Ability & Accessibility Center,
> (HA&AC)
> > > Austin Tx.
> > > Phone: 512. 838. 9735.
> > > Email: guidoc@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Web: http://www.ibm.com/able
> > >
> > > ". . . Maybe it was only those who were most
> > certain they were right
> > who
> > > were guaranteed to be wrong. And that maybe,
> just
> > maybe, those who
> > > questioned the most were in the end those who
> came
> > closest to being
> > > wise."
> > > [David Poyer, The Command]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Allison Hilliker"
> > <bookshare_girl@xxxxxxx>
> > > Sent by:
> > bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >
> > > 01/11/2008 06:06 PM
> > >
> > > Please respond to
> > > bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >
> > > To
> > > <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >
> > > cc
> > >
> > > Subject
> > > [bksvol-discuss] Re: Book without
> > blank lines at top/bottom
> > > of pages
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I have been a validator for about 3 or 4 years
> > now and really don't
> > pay
> > > attention to blank line placements, and I've
> not
> > had any trouble with
> > > the
> > > stripper eating my page numbers.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > Allison
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "E." <thoth93@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 2:14 PM
> > > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Book without
> blank
> > lines at top/bottom
> > of
> > > pages
> > >
> > >
> > > > How does this no needing of blank lines
> match
> > up with the need to
> > put
> > > in
> > > > blank lines around page breaks and page
> > numbers so that the stripper
> > > does
> > > > not remove said page numbers. If I am
> confused
> > I can only imagine
> > how
> > > new
> > > > validators feel. (sigh no grin)
> > > >
> > > > E.
> > > >
> > > > At 04:02 PM 1/11/2008, you wrote:
> > > >>Hi Sue,
> > > >>
> > > >>You bring up an important question. Let me
> > clarify what I meant in
> > my
> > > >>earlier post. Page breaks are absolutely
> > required. That has not
> > > change.
> > > >>I
> > > >>didn't mean to imply otherwise. What
> > Christine was asking about, or
> > > what
> > > >>I
> > > >>believe she was asking about, was whether or
> > not a blank line needed
> > > to be
> > > >>included at the beginning and end of every
> > page. These blank lines
> > > would
> > > >>be
> > > >>in addition to any page breaks. These
> blanks
> > are not necessary. In
> > > >>short,
> > > >>the page breaks are required, and the blank
> > lines are not.
> > > >>
> > > >>Hope this helps clear things up.
> > > >>
> > > >>Best,
> > > >>
> > > >>Allison Hilliker:
> > > >>Intern, Benetech (Bookshare.org).
> > > >>E-mail allisonh@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > >>www.bookshare.org
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> ----- Original Message ----- From:
> "siss52"
> > <siss52@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > >>To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > >>Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 12:37 PM
> > > >>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Book without
> > blank lines at top/bottom
> > > of
> > > >>pages
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>Hi Allison,
> > > >>>
> > > >>>If this is true, has bookshare changed
> their
> > policy about page
> > > breaks? I
> > > >>>thought they were not accepting books that
> > lacked page breaks.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>Best,
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>Sue S.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>----- O
> > > >>>riginal Message ----- From: "Allison
> > Hilliker"
> > > <bookshare_girl@xxxxxxx>
> > > >>>To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > >>>Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 1:31 PM
> > > >>>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Book without
> > blank lines at
> > top/bottom
> > > of
> > > >>>pages
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>Hi Christine,
> > > >>>
> > > >>>A book not having blank lines at the
> > beginning and ends of pages is
> > > not
> > > >>>cause for rejection. True, the blanks can
> be
> > helpful, but they are
> > > not
> > > >>>necessary. I verified
> > > >>>this fact with another Bookshare staff
> > member. I'll also note that
> > > the
> > > >>>volunteer manual sets forth no requirements
> > relating to this issue.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>Best,
> > > >>>
> > > >>>Allison Hilliker:
> > > >>>Intern, Benetech (Bookshare.org).
> > > >>>E-mail allisonh@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > >>>www.bookshare.org
> > > >>>
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