[bksvol-discuss] Re: Need to clarify header/footer processing logic

  • From: "Estelnalissi" <airadil@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 22:54:16 -0500

Dear Guido,
Here are the links to a couple of the books I've validated putting a blank line before and after the page numbers at the tops of pages. You didn't ask for them, but I can't bypass the opportunity to publicize a couple of the books I've worked on. I read as I validate, so I know the content of the books I upload very well.
Don't You Know There's A War On? by Avi is for middle school aged kids, as the young protagonist has a serious crush on his teacher. We have other books by Avi in the collection and now I understand why he's such a popular author. The setting of the story is New York City during WWII. The kids' slang, school routines and Saturday morning movies are so evocative of the mid twentieth century. The story is both funny and inspiring. This boy and his friends are effected by but can't do anything to stop the war. The boy's teacher is going to be fired and he realizes there are issues where he and his friends can make a difference. 

http://www.bookshare.org/web/SingleTitle.html?submittitleid=47300
As you check on, In The Name of the Father, by Gerry Conlan, you might get hooked. It's a memoir of a young, temperamental and shiftless Irish man who, along with several others, is targeted to be convicted of participating in a terrorist attack in Northern Ireland which kills several people. Gerry and the others are innocent, as is Gerry's father who is considered implicated and also convicted and locked up.By the time the incident is investigated and all those convicted are cleared, Gerry's father is dead and Gerry has served hard time in the toughest prisons in Britain.
I was particularly moved because the author isn't a brilliant writer or intellect. He tells his story in a doun-to-earth manner, almost innocently, indicting the British justice system, but admitting to his own unruly behavior and poor judgment. The honesty feels so sincere and raw. Since his release from prison, I can only hope Gerry Conlan's found a peaceful, secure niche in society, somewhere. 

http://www.bookshare.org/web/BooksBySimpleSearch.html?searchstring=In+The+Name+of+the+Father&operation=2&submit.x=0&submit.y=0
My current Bookshare read, set during and around WWII as is The 3rd Richt and Avi's short novel, is Atonement by Ian McCuin. The movie based on this N Y Times bestseller has just been released and the review I read says the movie does justice to an excellent story about Love, War, and Misplaced revenge.
I read my Bookshare books in braille most of the time. The page numbers look great in Atonement which I imagine Carrie processed.
I'm glad you're active on the list again, Guido. I subscribed just about the time you were busy with other activities and repeatedly read how listers missed you. Thanks for sending along the humor. I save scanno humor and this bit at Hitler's expense is way worth keeping. Good luck with your investigations. 

Always with love,

Lissi
----- Original Message ----- From: "Grandma Cindy" <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx> 
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 9:43 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Need to clarify header/footer processing logic



For your reading pleasure--you can choose from the
following, grin: Teach With Your Heart, a well-written
autobiography of the Freedom Writers teacher;; First
Ladies (about the Presidents' wives and their
husbands--nicely written and interesting with persnal
facts); Transsexuals: Candid questions and answers
(with this one I didn't change fonts and stuff as I
usually do); Running out of Time (Young Adult--do you
have kids, Guido?); Flambards (same).

I'll stop there. smile

G. Cindy


-- Guido Corona <guidoc@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


Cindy,  could you point me to a book where you have
used your method?  I'd
like to see what the header/footer processor has
done with it.

G.


Guido Dante Corona
IBM Research,
Human Ability & Accessibility Center,   (HA&AC)
Austin Tx.
Phone:  512. 838. 9735.
Email: guidoc@xxxxxxxxxxx
Web:  http://www.ibm.com/able

". . . Maybe it was only those who were most certain
they were right who
were guaranteed to be wrong. And that maybe, just
maybe, those who
questioned the most were in the end those who came
closest to being wise."
[David Poyer, The Command]




Grandma Cindy <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
01/13/2008 07:40 PM
Please respond to
bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx


To
bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
cc

Subject
[bksvol-discuss] Re: Need to clarify header/footer
processing logic






Thanks for seeking a clarification, because I've
been
doing it blank line 1, page number, blank line, then
text or chapter title. I leave two line spaces
between
chapter title and first line of chapter, but that's
irrelevant to the subject under discussion.

I've been moving page numbers to the top of the
page,
since Lissi said, and people have agreed, that  that
makes it easier for them to read them, but I do
leave
a blank line between the last line of test and the
page break. If I've been doing it incorrectly, I'll
change my ways. smile

G.Cindy

--- Guido Corona <guidoc@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> My understanding is instead the following:
>
> for running headers:
>
> Absolute line 1 on the page contains a page
number.
> Line 2 remains blank.
>
> or in case of footer:
>
> very bottom line of the page contains a page
number.
> Line above is blank.
>
> This is slightly different from what some others
> understand.  As I said, I
> will seek clarification on the issue.
>
> G.
>
> Guido Dante Corona
> IBM Research,
> Human Ability & Accessibility Center,   (HA&AC)
> Austin Tx.
> Phone:  512. 838. 9735.
> Email: guidoc@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Web:  http://www.ibm.com/able
>
> ". . . Maybe it was only those who were most
certain
> they were right who
> were guaranteed to be wrong. And that maybe, just
> maybe, those who
> questioned the most were in the end those who came
> closest to being wise."
> [David Poyer, The Command]
>
>
>
>
> "Pratik Patel" <pratikp1@xxxxxxxxx>
> Sent by: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> 01/13/2008 05:53 PM
> Please respond to
> bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
> To
> <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> cc
>
> Subject
> [bksvol-discuss] Re: Need to clarify header/footer
> processing logic
>
>
>
>
>
>
> This is my direct understanding of the logic.  We
> have discussed the need
> to
> have the blank lines for best HTML formatting.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Grandma Cindy
> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 5:22 PM
> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Need to clarify
> header/footer processing
> logic
>
> If one reads it carefully (a big if I suppose)
it's
> clear. The header or footer would be the first or
> last
> line of *text* if it's followed by a blank line,
or
> line space. grin
>
> G.Cindy
>
>
> --- Guido Corona <guidoc@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > The following lines in the volunteer manual may
be
> > some source of
> > confusion:
> >
> > >   a.. Make sure that if a page contains a
header
> > that the header is the
> > > first line of text on the page.
> > >   b.. Make sure that if a page contains a
footer
> > that the footer is the
> > > last line of text on the page.
> >
> >
> > . . .
> >
> > >   a.. Make sure there is a blank line before
> > headers
> > >   b.. Make sure there is a blank line after
> > footers
> >
> > As this is not exactly my understanding of the
> logic
> > of the header/footer
> > processor,  I will seek a direct interpretation
> from
> > the engineering
> > department.
> >
> > G.
> >
> >
> > Guido Dante Corona
> > IBM Research,
> > Human Ability & Accessibility Center,   (HA&AC)
> > Austin Tx.
> > Phone:  512. 838. 9735.
> > Email: guidoc@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > Web:  http://www.ibm.com/able
> >
> > ". . . Maybe it was only those who were most
> certain
> > they were right who
> > were guaranteed to be wrong. And that maybe,
just
> > maybe, those who
> > questioned the most were in the end those who
came
> > closest to being wise."
> > [David Poyer, The Command]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Tracy Carcione" <carcione@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent by: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > 01/12/2008 03:40 PM
> > Please respond to
> > bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> >
> > To
> > bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > cc
> >
> > Subject
> > [bksvol-discuss] Re: Book without blank lines at

> > top/bottom      of pages
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Jake,
> > I thought there needed to be a blank line
*after*
> > headers, and before
> > footers.  Is this wrong?
> > So, I thought the page number had to be in the
> > first, or last line, of a
> > page, and, when it's on the top, be followed by
a
> > blank line.
> > For an example, you could see my validations of
> The
> > Inimatble Jeeves, or
> > of The Catcher From Double-A.
> >
> > How depressing, if I've been doing it wrong all
> > these years.
> > Tracy
> >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > Pratik is correct in that blank lines at the
> tops
> > and bottoms of pages
> > > help ensure a high quality HTML file (derived
> from
> > the DAISY). I am not
> > > aware of any changes since we last observed
that
> > this was accurate. Page
> > > headers/footers should be the first or last
> actual
> > text on the page.
> > After
> > > my signature, I have included the portion of
the
> > volunteer manual that
> > > discusses this.
> > >
> > > Sincerely,
> > > Jake
> > >
> > > Jake Brownell
> > > jakeb@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >
> > > 3.3.6 Feel Free To Clean Up Running Headers
And
> > Footers
> > > When a book is uploaded after validation, the
> Book
> > Is processed by a
> > tool
> > > which attempts to do four things:
> > >
> > >   1.. Identify recurring text at the top and
> > bottom of each page known
> > as
> > > "running headers and footers"
> > >   2.. Identify page numbers in the running
> headers
> > and footers
> > >   3.. Remove text from running headers and
> footers
> > >   4.. Process the page numbers to allow easier
> > navigation of DAISY books
> > > and include original page numbers in BRF books
> > > Volunteers can assist this tool by insuring
that
> > headers and footers are
> > > consistent throughout the book.
> > >
> > >   a.. Capitalization should be used
consistently
> > throughout headers and
> > > footers
> > >   b.. Tabs and spaces should be used
> consistently
> > throughout headers and
> > > footers
> > >   c.. Page numbers and text in each header or
> > footer should be on the
> > same
> > > line
> > >   d.. Page numbers should be separated from
text
> > in a header or footer
> > by
> > > a space or tab
> > > Note that the text will be removed by the tool
> if
> > it is consistent, so
> > the
> > > easiest way to insure that the tool can
identify
> > page numbers is to
> > remove
> > > the text from running headers and footers.
This
> is
> > not only much easier
> > > for volunteers, but makes the tool's job
simpler
> > as well.
> > >
> > > If you wish to clean up headers and footers,
> > please do the following for
> > > each page containing a header or footer:
> > >
> > >   a.. Make sure that if a page contains a
header
> > that the header is the
> > > first line of text on the page.
> > >   b.. Make sure that if a page contains a
footer
> > that the footer is the
> > > last line of text on the page.
> > > Note that lines containing punctuation marks
or
> > symbols, such as hyphens
> > > and asterisks, are considered lines of text.
> > >
> > > The following will also help prevent issues
with
> > page numbers in HTML
> > > files when creating an HTML file using the
> > Bookshare.org Unpack Tool:
> > >
> > >   a.. Make sure there is a blank line before
> > headers
> > >   b.. Make sure there is a blank line after
> > footers
> > >
> > >   ----- Original Message -----
> > >   From: Pratik Patel
> > >   To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >   Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 12:07 AM
> > >   Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Book without
> blank
> > lines at top/bottom
> > of
> > > pages
> > >
> > >
> > >   Hello all,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >   Based on the confusion, I'll do some tests
> over
> > the weekend and report
> > > back.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >   Pratik
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >   From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On
> > Behalf Of Guido Corona
> > >   Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 9:43 PM
> > >   To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >   Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Book without
> blank
> > lines at top/bottom
> > of
> > > pages
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >   Allison,  the header processor is actually
> > supposed to eat up headers;
> > > it should then extract page numbers and place
> them
> > into the DAISY code,
> > > so that DAISY readers can go to the real page
> > 4456,  instead of the
> > > 456th page from the beginning of the file.
> > >
> > >   G.
> > >
> > >
> > >   Guido Dante Corona
> > >   IBM Research,
> > >   Human Ability & Accessibility Center,
> (HA&AC)
> > >   Austin Tx.
> > >   Phone:  512. 838. 9735.
> > >   Email: guidoc@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > >   Web:  http://www.ibm.com/able
> > >
> > >   ". . . Maybe it was only those who were most
> > certain they were right
> > who
> > > were guaranteed to be wrong. And that maybe,
> just
> > maybe, those who
> > > questioned the most were in the end those who
> came
> > closest to being
> > > wise."
> > >   [David Poyer, The Command]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >         "Allison Hilliker"
> > <bookshare_girl@xxxxxxx>
> > >         Sent by:
> > bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >
> > >         01/11/2008 06:06 PM
> > >
> > >               Please respond to
> > >               bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >
> > >        To
> > >              <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >
> > >               cc
> > >
> > >               Subject
> > >              [bksvol-discuss] Re: Book without
> > blank lines at top/bottom
> > > of pages
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >   Hi,
> > >
> > >   I have been a validator for about 3 or 4
years
> > now and really don't
> > pay
> > >   attention to blank line placements, and I've
> not
> > had any trouble with
> > > the
> > >   stripper eating my page numbers.
> > >
> > >   Best,
> > >   Allison
> > >   ----- Original Message -----
> > >   From: "E." <thoth93@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >   To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >   Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 2:14 PM
> > >   Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Book without
> blank
> > lines at top/bottom
> > of
> > >   pages
> > >
> > >
> > >   > How does this no needing of blank lines
> match
> > up with the need to
> > put
> > > in
> > >   > blank lines around page breaks and page
> > numbers so that the stripper
> > > does
> > >   > not remove said page numbers. If I am
> confused
> > I can only imagine
> > how
> > > new
> > >   > validators feel. (sigh no grin)
> > >   >
> > >   > E.
> > >   >
> > >   >  At 04:02 PM 1/11/2008, you wrote:
> > >   >>Hi Sue,
> > >   >>
> > >   >>You bring up an important question.  Let
me
> > clarify what I meant in
> > my
> > >   >>earlier post.  Page breaks are absolutely
> > required.  That has not
> > > change.
> > >   >>I
> > >   >>didn't mean to imply otherwise.  What
> > Christine was asking about, or
> > > what
> > >   >>I
> > >   >>believe she was asking about, was whether
or
> > not a blank line needed
> > > to be
> > >   >>included at the beginning and end of every
> > page.  These blank lines
> > > would
> > >   >>be
> > >   >>in addition to any page breaks.  These
> blanks
> > are not necessary.  In
> > >   >>short,
> > >   >>the page breaks are required, and the
blank
> > lines are not.
> > >   >>
> > >   >>Hope this helps clear things up.
> > >   >>
> > >   >>Best,
> > >   >>
> > >   >>Allison Hilliker:
> > >   >>Intern, Benetech (Bookshare.org).
> > >   >>E-mail allisonh@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >   >>www.bookshare.org
> > >   >>
> > >   >>
> > >   >>  ----- Original Message ----- From:
> "siss52"
> > <siss52@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >   >>To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >   >>Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 12:37 PM
> > >   >>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Book without
> > blank lines at top/bottom
> > > of
> > >   >>pages
> > >   >>
> > >   >>
> > >   >>>
> > >   >>>Hi Allison,
> > >   >>>
> > >   >>>If this is true, has bookshare changed
> their
> > policy about page
> > > breaks?  I
> > >   >>>thought they were not accepting books
that
> > lacked page breaks.
> > >   >>>
> > >   >>>Best,
> > >   >>>
> > >   >>>
> > >   >>>Sue S.
> > >   >>>
> > >   >>>----- O
> > >   >>>riginal Message ----- From: "Allison
> > Hilliker"
> > > <bookshare_girl@xxxxxxx>
> > >   >>>To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >   >>>Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 1:31 PM
> > >   >>>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Book
without
> > blank lines at
> > top/bottom
> > > of
> > >   >>>pages
> > >   >>>
> > >   >>>
> > >   >>>Hi Christine,
> > >   >>>
> > >   >>>A book not having blank lines at the
> > beginning and ends of pages is
> > > not
> > >   >>>cause for rejection.  True, the blanks
can
> be
> > helpful, but they are
> > > not
> > >   >>>necessary.  I verified
> > >   >>>this fact with another Bookshare staff
> > member.  I'll also note that
> > > the
> > >   >>>volunteer manual sets forth no
requirements
> > relating to this issue.
> > >   >>>
> > >   >>>Best,
> > >   >>>
> > >   >>>Allison Hilliker:
> > >   >>>Intern, Benetech (Bookshare.org).
> > >   >>>E-mail allisonh@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >   >>>www.bookshare.org
> > >   >>>
> > >   >>>To unsubscribe from this list send a
blank
> > Email to
> > >   >>>bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >   >>>put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in
the
> > subject line.  To get a
> > > list
> > >   >>>of
> > >   >>>available commands, put the word 'help'
by
> > itself in the subject
> > > line.
> > >   >>>
> > >   >>>
> > >   >>>
> > >   >>>To unsubscribe from this list send a
blank
> > Email to
> > >   >>>bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >   >>>put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in
the
> > subject line.  To get a
> > > list
> > >   >>>of available commands, put the word
'help'
> by
> > itself in the subject
> > > line.
> > >   >>
> > >   >>To unsubscribe from this list send a blank
> > Email to
> > >   >>bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >   >>put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in
the
> > subject line.  To get a
> > > list
> > >   >>of available commands, put the word 'help'
> by
> > itself in the subject
> > > line.
> > >   >>
> > >   >>
> > >   >>__________ NOD32 2784 (20080111)
Information
> > __________
> > >   >>
> > >   >>This message was checked by NOD32
antivirus
> > system.
> > >   >>http://www.eset.com
> > >   >>
> > >   >
> > >   > To unsubscribe from this list send a blank
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> > >   > put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in
the
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> > >   > of available commands, put the word 'help'
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> > >   >
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> > >
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> >
> >
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Email
> to
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> > in the subject line.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> WISH LIST (called Requested Additions To The
> Bookshare Collection)is
> available at
>


http://people.delphiforums.com/jamiecalton/Book_Requests.htm

> http://www.friendsofbookshare.org/
>


http://studentpages.alma.edu/~07jmyate/book_requests.htm

>
> www.jbrownell.com for miscellaneous and useful
> threads
>
>
>
>


____________________________________________________________________________

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>  To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email
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> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the
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> line.  To get a list
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> available commands, put the word 'help' by itself
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> the subject line.
>
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>  To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email
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> line.  To get a list
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itself
> in the subject line.
>
>
>


WISH LIST (called Requested Additions To The
Bookshare Collection)is
available at


http://people.delphiforums.com/jamiecalton/Book_Requests.htm

http://www.friendsofbookshare.org/


http://studentpages.alma.edu/~07jmyate/book_requests.htm


www.jbrownell.com for miscellaneous and useful
threads





____________________________________________________________________________________

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 To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
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put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject
line.  To get a list
of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself
in the subject line.
WISH LIST (called Requested Additions To The Bookshare Collection)is available at 
http://people.delphiforums.com/jamiecalton/Book_Requests.htm
http://www.friendsofbookshare.org/
http://studentpages.alma.edu/~07jmyate/book_requests.htm

www.jbrownell.com for miscellaneous and useful threads



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