[AR] Re: Super Loki Dart design documents
- From: "Anthony Cesaroni" <acesaroni@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 09:50:51 -0400
I'm not familiar with the 3A designation. The one we worked on here with ATK
was a nominal 7" case. There was interest in developing composite hardware
for the system to improve quality and mass fraction. I still have the
drawings for it somewhere. Orbital was the prime at the time and all the
tooling for the motor was destroyed in a fire. Discussions with them after
that, suggested there wasn't justification for resurrecting that design.
Best.
Anthony J. Cesaroni
President/CEO
Cesaroni Technology/Cesaroni Aerospace
<http://www.cesaronitech.com/> http://www.cesaronitech.com/
(941) 360-3100 x101 Sarasota
(905) 887-2370 x222 Toronto
From: arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Redacted sender "JMKrell@xxxxxxx" for DMARC
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2014 9:12 AM
To: arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [AR] Re: Super Loki Dart design documents
Viper 3A - 4.33" upgraded Super Loki
Viper 2 - 7.08"
Krell
In a message dated 9/3/2014 6:03:32 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
acesaroni@xxxxxxxxxxx writes:
Closer to 7".
Anthony J. Cesaroni
President/CEO
Cesaroni Technology/Cesaroni Aerospace
http://www.cesaronitech.com/
(941) 360-3100 x101 Sarasota
(905) 887-2370 x222 Toronto
-----Original Message-----
From: arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Monroe L. King Jr.
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2014 8:53 AM
To: arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [AR] Re: Super Loki Dart design documents
I thought the "Viper" was a 4" version.
Monroe
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: [AR] Re: Super Loki Dart design documents
> From: "Troy Prideaux" <GEORDI@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Mon, September 01, 2014 7:25 pm
> To: <arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
>
> Which is kind of the point I was making.
>
> Troy
>
>
> The higher altitudes from the Viper darts is the result of the 57 lbs of
propellant compared to the 37 lbs in the Super Loki.
>
> In a message dated 9/1/2014 3:46:44 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
GEORDI@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
> >O25000 great stunt motor but not very efficient. Larger diameter
> >dramatically increases drag, particularly in the le, dense atmosphere.
>
> Not necessarily - for the same aspect ratio and everything else being
equal, a larger diameter (or actually larger) rocket should be more
efficient than a smaller one in an atmosphere purely due to *drag* - a
larger rocket is *less* affected by drag due to the cube-square law. Of
course (with everything being equal), larger rockets generally go faster due
to this fact and will, as a consequence, experience more drag so everything
isn't equal after all and because of this will probably be less efficient.
Nevertheless, it should go higher hence demonstrated why the operational
ceilings for the larger Viper darts are considerably higher than the smaller
Loki.
> The O25000 probably is a bit short for a really efficient dart motor,
but its burn time will go some way in making up for that with an efficient
dart.
>
> >
> >This is why all the folks flying N5800s are very amusing. No doubt
> >entertaining but highly inefficient. Much of the energy of the motor
> >goes into drag and heat rather than altitude.
>
> Indeed. I'm guessing the attraction is the engineering challenge of
dealing with the loads experienced with such an aggressive flight profile.
Flying such flight profiles is incredibly inefficient, however well
engineered *boosted darts* are the most efficient method of obtaining a
certain altitude within an atmosphere and gravity field.
>
> Troy.
>
>
>
> >
> >K
> >
> >Ken Biba
> >Novarum
> >Managing Director and CTO
> >+14155775496
> >
> >
> >> On Sep 1, 2014, at 1:28 AM, "Monroe L. King Jr."
> ><monroe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>
> >> Yeah, that motor would do it. I just can not afford that one.
> >>
> >> Monroe
> >>
> >>> -------- Original Message --------
> >>> Subject: [AR] Re: Super Loki Dart design documents
> >>> From: "Troy Prideaux" <GEORDI@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> Date: Sun, August 31, 2014 8:22 pm
> >>> To: <arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> That O-25000 would be a very sweet motor for a boosted dart :)
> >>> Very
> >sweet indeed. What was the 5" variant of the Loki again? Viper?
> >>>
> >>> Troy
> >>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>> [mailto:arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> >On
> >>>> Behalf Of Mark C Spiegl
> >>>> Sent: Monday, 1 September 2014 12:39 PM
> >>>> To: arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>> Subject: [AR] Re: Super Loki Dart design documents
> >>>>
> >>>> Monroe L. King Jr. wrote:
> >>>>>> So I guess I need to calculate the burn rate and see what COTS
> >>>>>> has to
> >>>> offer in
> >>>>>> that ball park. Who has the fastest COTS propellant? Has anyone
> >>>>>> got
> >any
> >>>> hard
> >>>>>> data on that? I'm sure someone out there in Arocket land
> >>>>>> already know
> >>>> who's got
> >>>>>> the hottest propellant.
> >>>>
> >>>> Cesaroni O-25000???
> >>>> It's a 5 inch motor but might work.
> >>>>
> >>>> Cesaroni N-5800
> >>>> Is a 4 inch motor but only 20kNS thrust
> >>>>
> >>>> For home brew, Kosdon had some quick burning motors. You might
> >>>> find the formulas online these days.
> >>>>
> >>>> -->MCS
> >>
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