[GeoStL] Re: You catch more flies with honey, than vinegar

From: "Mike Griffin" <griff@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <geocaching@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 14:53:43 -0600
-
I was surprised at the fact you bring something up that is 2 years old.. It 
did not make any sense as we resolved it to your satisfaction I might add, 
and moved on with life. Now you accuse everyone who was present when the 
joke was told as being supportive of the joke and racism. Tell me Jim, did 
we really laugh at the joke or did we move on to something else. Did you 
stand idly by when it was told and did nothing? You mean to tell me you had 
the opportunity to say something and you, who has started a I HATE SLAGA 
website, had nothing to say at the time????

Now you want PAUL to handle your problems? You are a whack job and have no 
business functioning in society. I no longer consider you a friend or part 
of MOGA. I guess you can add this to your list of Psychobabble on your 
website. Somehow, this will reflect me being a racist too. So be it. I make 
the statement right here and right now that I do not support racism in any 
form. If someone tells a joke, it will 99% of the time be about someone. 
Blond jokes are just as bad as Skin Color Jokes. If I listen to one and 
laugh, does it make me any more rasict as the person who listens and says 
NOTHING to the PERSON who tells it???

Then you start on PAUL for something that he wasn't present for. There were 
several people around when this particular joke was told. However, NO ONE 
said ANYTHING, including you.

I will not respond nor will I post on this subject again. Just know one 
thing, you are not welcomed to anything I am associated with. THIS INCLUDES 
MOGA.

I think you are an evil misguided person that has no backbone and must type 
you opinions because you cannot stand up to the people who offend you.
Have a miserable life!

Mike

Tired of Spam??
Here's your solution..
See: http://www.spamarrest.com/affl?4001050

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim Bensman" <junkmailno@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <geocaching@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 1:51 PM
Subject: [GeoStL] Re: You catch more flies with honey, than vinegar


> -
> I will be surprised if this is not blocked, but it will be on 
> www.SLAGA.org
> anyway.
>
> A few points in response to what has been posted.
>
> As I said on my website, "While the vast majority of people I have met in
> SLAGA are really good people, there are some bad apples and SLAGA's 
> officers
> are bent on protecting them and punishing anyone who complains about
> bigots."
>
> I will also point out I filed the complaint with SLAGA's officers last 
> month
> and begged them not to make it come to this.  I patiently gave the 
> Officers
> more than adequate time to act responsibility.
>
> As to complaints about misrepresenting things, while I certainly spin
> things, I put all the correspondence with SLAGA's officers on the site 
> spin
> free in context so people can judge for themselves.  If Paul or anyone
> thinks anything on the site is not true, I will address it and if we 
> cannot
> resolve it, I will allow them to post something on the site to make their
> case.  If SLAGA's Officers want to post a response, I will put it up.
>
> As to the many suggestions that I should have personally confront the
> person:  The person who used "ni**er" posted hate speech directed at 
> Native
> Americans on the listserve a couple of years ago.  As Paul pointed out, I
> confronted him and was promptly set to no post for confronting the bigot.
>
> In the aftermath, Mike who was President at the time and who just posted, 
> "I
> am confused as to how this is my problem" told me:
>
> "The person who released the message, . . ., is a naturalized citizen from
> Germany. He just thought he was doing the patriotic thing. His actions 
> were
> innocent as he did not know it would be offensive to anyone. When he saw 
> the
> part concerning native Americans, he thought it was just anyone born here. 
> I
> don't know what it means but it should have never been posted."
> He also told me, "Racism has no place at SLAGA."  In response to me 
> saying,
> "I will not be quite when people spew hate. People being quite is what
> allowed Hitler and the KKK to flourish. Hate speech drives people to kill
> and do hateful things. People have an obligation to stand up when people
> spew hate speech." Mike responded "I will not stand by either."  He also
> stated, "We will setup an email account for abuse and complaints. They 
> will
> go to me and a few others I choose. They will not go to . . .. All persons
> will be neutral. The address will be Abuse@xxxxxxxxxx"  He also told me, 
> "No
> room at SLAGA for racism or hate mail. Again, don't blame . . . for the
> original message. He is an immigrant that thought he was doing something
> patriotic. He didn't think about his actions and what it would have 
> caused.
> I regret that any of this happened."
>
> There was no misunderstanding this time.  The premise of the racist joke 
> was
> black people are much more offended by having to have a job than gay sex.
> And most importantly, Mike stood by and laughed as the joke was told.  So 
> it
> did not seem to me that complaining to Mike (i.e., SLAGA's designee for
> handling complaints about racism) about what he was laughing at or to the
> bigot was the way to address the situation.  Ignoring it would have been 
> the
> easy thing.  But I do not think that is the moral choice.
>
> It is also beyond belief at how Mike or anyone could compare criticizing
> someone for not doing their fair share to hate speech based on people's
> race.  This is particularly disturbing as Mike heard the racist joke too."
> I will also point out I was secretly kicked off the list for my comments
> about PA. We were also all warned how criticizing someone on this list is
> not allowed.  I guess it all matters on your point of view if it is OK to
> criticize you.
>
> Also it is not just about the hate speech, the main driving force of the
> website is SLAGA's Officers (particularly Paul's) response to a complaint
> about racist hate speech at events. One issue that needs to be resolved to
> end the site is people should be able to make a complaint about racist 
> hate
> speech without being punished for complaining.  That is like firing 
> someone
> for complaining about sexual harassment.
>
> And finally to Mike's comment, "Also, remove the LOGO from your site. You
> have no right to use copyrighted material."  Even if it is copyrighted, 
> you
> are wrong.  I would suggest reading up on the 1st Amendment and the "Fair
> Use" exception to the copyright law.
>
>
>
> Jim Bensman
> "Nature Bats Last"
>
>
>
>
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 list, click -----> //www.freelists.org/list/geocaching 
 Missouri Caches Scheduled to be Archived  http://tinyurl.com/87cqw
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[GeoStL] Re: You catch more flies with honey, than vinegar

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