Cool Roxanna,
I corresponded with Doug Malewicki 20+ years ago and we along with several
others discussed steam propulsion equation issues and even Bob Truax was
consulted at one point. The next step in that project
never materialized and I am now going to try and complete the original agenda.
Regards - John
-----Original Message-----
From: roxanna Mason <rocketmaster.ken@xxxxxxxxx>
To: arocket <arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sun, Jul 28, 2019 2:03 pm
Subject: [AR] Re: exothermic heating of water
I see, kind od esoteric information.The only 'steam'/hot water rocket
experience I have is with Bob Truax as the Evel Knievel steam rocket that we
tested early/mid 70's at our Perkins test site SE of Sacramento not far from
Aerojet. Water was heated thru a Titan 1 turbopump heat exchanger heated with
propane in a 77 gallon B-17 stainless steel O2 breathing bottle. Approx.
conditions were 400F @ 400 PSIG with a pindtle withdrawn from the nozzle throat
within the tank.I wish you luck and Blessings in your pursuits.
RM
On Sun, Jul 28, 2019 at 10:28 AM Redacted sender jkraieski for DMARC
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi Roxanna,
Thanks for your "jump in" and it intrigues me so I will look into it but my
main objective is to beable to heat water quickly in an enclosed container. I
have several (many) tests I wish/want to perform that require water at high
temperatures and obviously high pressure and heating the "old fashion" way
takes a relative long time. The solution I started this thread about turns out
will work very well but one can be injured/die using the listed chemicals
unless stringent protocols are followed which I could do but I am looking for
other options. I will at this point continue my project using one of the "old"
heating methods (until something else presents itself?) and just live with it.
I also know there are many better/higher performing reactions other than using
water but, this is the only "substance" I am looking at using at this time for
my own reasons.
Regards - John
-----Original Message-----
From: roxanna Mason <rocketmaster.ken@xxxxxxxxx>
To: arocket <arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sun, Jul 28, 2019 12:38 pm
Subject: [AR] Re: exothermic heating of water
I have to jump in for my couple of denarios worth. I know hydrogen is liberated
with the following reactions but what is your objection? H2 give the highest
ISP and would be in relatively low amounts exhausted to the atmosphere probably
not even in explosive concentrations anyway here goes; A metal alkyl like
Triethylaluminum (TEA)? Fairly inexpensive with benign reaction products like
aluminum oxide(besides the H2). I've designed systems for TEA as an ignition
fluids with 100% peroxide in hybrids and it's no big deal. Or sodium/potassium
metal alloy (NaK), The eutectic is liquid to 10F/-12C. Not sure which is more
reactive,TEA or NaK but NaK has been measured in the single digit millisecond
range. TEA probably is less expensive but NaK easier to procure in small
quantities and not pyrophoric,at least not overtly so. BTW, the explosive
reactions of sodium, potassium, and the other alkali metals, with water are not
from H2/O2 detonating but from Columbic forces, the repulsion of like charges
of the newly formed constituents of the reaction. There's a great YouTube video
about this.Good luck whatever floats your rocket.
RM
On Sun, Jul 28, 2019 at 7:30 AM Redacted sender jkraieski for DMARC
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Duh, thanks Dr. Terry
Regards - John
-----Original Message-----
From: Terry McCreary <tmccreary@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: arocket <arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sun, Jul 28, 2019 9:38 am
Subject: [AR] Re: exothermic heating of water
If you go to the link posted earlier, the one that shows the abstract, just
click on "Original Document" in the menu on the left. On 7/28/2019 8:20 AM,
(Redacted sender jkraieski for DMARC) wrote:
Thanks Dr. Terry,
Exactly what I was looking for. It does appear that this may be a dead
end and I'll just have to heat the water the "old fashion" way. Is there a
link you can send me so I can get a copy of the patent to add it to my
archives?
Regards - John
-----Original Message-----
From: Terry McCreary <tmccreary@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: arocket <arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sun, Jul 28, 2019 8:14 am
Subject: [AR] Re: exothermic heating of water
John, FWIW I'm not really a chemist, just taught and wrote university
textbooks on the subject for 36 years (you know, "those who can, do; those who
can't, teach" :-)***). I went to the actual patent rather than the abstract,
and this part is of some interest: I'd hazard a guess that this may be the
actual combination that was used, since it says "tested, in particular". The
other combinations may just be the kind of smokescreen used in writing patents,
especially since some of them are right out based on the patent claims. The
product of the reaction would be ammonium sulfate, (NH4)2SO4, which is very
soluble in water and pretty much innocuous to the skin. That being said...over
the years I've occasionally worked with some fairly nasty/energetic chemicals
and combinations (not as nasty or energetic as others on the list have
used...right, Anthony?:-)). The combination in the patent is not one that I'd
be interested in pursuing. Some very good PPE including a self-contained
breathing apparatus would be necessary; concentrated ammonia that's even in the
same room as fuming sulfuric is going to generate very fine ammonium sulfate
dust, so fine that it remains suspended almost indefinitely. Ammonium sulfate
may be innocuous to the skin but isn't too breathable. And of course the SO3
that's coming off the sulfuric acid forms more sulfuric acid whenever it hits
water, including water vapor and the moisture in the skin, mucous membranes,
and lungs...
Anyone who hasn't had formal training and extensive experience working with
concentrated acids and bases is looking to get hurt with this combination. Just
my opinions -- Terry
***"those who can't teach, teach teaching; those who can't teach teaching,
administrate...";-)
--
Dr. Terry McCreary
Professor Emeritus
Murray State University
Murray KY 42071 --
Dr. Terry McCreary
Professor Emeritus
Murray State University
Murray KY 42071
