I see, kind od esoteric information.
The only 'steam'/hot water rocket experience I have is with Bob Truax as
the Evel Knievel steam rocket that we tested early/mid 70's
at our Perkins test site SE of Sacramento not far from Aerojet. Water was
heated thru a Titan 1 turbopump heat exchanger heated with propane in a 77
gallon B-17 stainless steel O2 breathing bottle. Approx. conditions were
400F @ 400 PSIG with a pindtle withdrawn from the nozzle throat within the
tank.
I wish you luck and Blessings in your pursuits.
RM
On Sun, Jul 28, 2019 at 10:28 AM Redacted sender jkraieski for DMARC <
dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi Roxanna,
Thanks for your "jump in" and it intrigues me so I will look into it
but my main objective is to be
able to heat water quickly in an enclosed container. I have several (many)
tests I wish/want to perform
that require water at high temperatures and obviously high pressure and
heating the "old fashion" way
takes a relative long time. The solution I started this thread about turns
out will work very well but one
can be injured/die using the listed chemicals unless stringent protocols
are followed which I could do
but I am looking for other options. I will at this point continue my
project using one of the "old" heating
methods (until something else presents itself?) and just live with it. I
also know there are many
better/higher performing reactions other than using water but, this is the
only "substance" I am
looking at using at this time for my own reasons.
Regards - John
-----Original Message-----
From: roxanna Mason <rocketmaster.ken@xxxxxxxxx>
To: arocket <arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sun, Jul 28, 2019 12:38 pm
Subject: [AR] Re: exothermic heating of water
I have to jump in for my couple of denarios worth.
I know hydrogen is liberated with the following reactions but what is your
objection? H2 give the highest ISP and would be in relatively low amounts
exhausted to the atmosphere probably not even in explosive concentrations
anyway here goes;
A metal alkyl like Triethylaluminum (TEA)? Fairly inexpensive with benign
reaction products like aluminum oxide(besides the H2). I've designed
systems for TEA as an ignition fluids with 100% peroxide in hybrids and
it's no big deal.
Or sodium/potassium metal alloy (NaK), The eutectic is liquid to 10F/-12C.
Not sure which is more reactive,TEA or NaK but NaK has been measured in the
single digit millisecond range. TEA probably is less expensive but NaK
easier to procure in small quantities and not pyrophoric,at least not
overtly so. BTW, the explosive reactions of sodium, potassium, and the
other alkali metals, with water are not from H2/O2 detonating but from
Columbic forces, the repulsion of like charges of the newly formed
constituents of the reaction. There's a great YouTube video about this.
Good luck whatever floats your rocket.
RM
On Sun, Jul 28, 2019 at 7:30 AM Redacted sender jkraieski for DMARC <
dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Duh, thanks Dr. Terry
Regards - John
-----Original Message-----
From: Terry McCreary <tmccreary@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: arocket <arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sun, Jul 28, 2019 9:38 am
Subject: [AR] Re: exothermic heating of water
If you go to the link posted earlier, the one that shows the abstract,
just click on "Original Document" in the menu on the left.
On 7/28/2019 8:20 AM, (Redacted sender jkraieski for DMARC) wrote:
Thanks Dr. Terry,
Exactly what I was looking for. It does appear that this may be a
dead end and
I'll just have to heat the water the "old fashion" way. Is there a link
you can send me
so I can get a copy of the patent to add it to my archives?
Regards - John
-----Original Message-----
From: Terry McCreary <tmccreary@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<tmccreary@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: arocket <arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sun, Jul 28, 2019 8:14 am
Subject: [AR] Re: exothermic heating of water
John,
FWIW I'm not really a chemist, just taught and wrote university textbooks
on the subject for 36 years (you know, "those who can, do; those who can't,
teach" :-)***). I went to the actual patent rather than the abstract,
and this part is of some interest:
I'd hazard a guess that this may be the actual combination that was used,
since it says "tested, in particular". The other combinations may just be
the kind of smokescreen used in writing patents, especially since some of
them are right out based on the patent claims. The product of the reaction
would be ammonium sulfate, (NH4)2SO4, which is very soluble in water and
pretty much innocuous to the skin.
That being said...over the years I've occasionally worked with some fairly
nasty/energetic chemicals and combinations (not as nasty or energetic as
others on the list have used...right, Anthony?:-)). The combination in
the patent is not one that I'd be interested in pursuing. Some very good
PPE including a self-contained breathing apparatus would be necessary;
concentrated ammonia that's even in the same room as fuming sulfuric is
going to generate very fine ammonium sulfate dust, so fine that it remains
suspended almost indefinitely. Ammonium sulfate may be innocuous to the
skin but isn't too breathable. And of course the SO3 that's coming off the
sulfuric acid forms more sulfuric acid whenever it hits water, including
water vapor and the moisture in the skin, mucous membranes, and lungs...
Anyone who hasn't had formal training and extensive experience working
with concentrated acids and bases is looking to get hurt with this
combination.
Just my opinions -- Terry
***"those who can't teach, teach teaching; those who can't teach teaching,
administrate...";-)
--
Dr. Terry McCreary
Professor Emeritus
Murray State University
Murray KY 42071
--
Dr. Terry McCreary
Professor Emeritus
Murray State University
Murray KY 42071
