[optacon-l] Re: optacon / braille PDA combination
- From: David <trailerdavid@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 10:35:29 +0200
Charles,
Please do keep in mind, that on this list you find many a user, whose native
language is not English. So, maybe simple language, should always be
attempted, when explaining more complex parts. I don't blame the user who
does not get your figures, as I don't either. And if you read your below
explanation, I just wonder if something got messed up on either your
calculator, or on mine. 120 dollars, divided by 8, does not give me anything
close to 4 or 6 dollars, and if I multiply it, it does give still less close
to your end figures.
No matter all this explanation, I guess most of us wants to know, what the
end product will cost. That is, not just the production of a cell with
whatever number of dots, but what the final unit will cost. Too many times,
we see products launched to the market, which claim to be this and that
good, and finally have reached an affordable price. Hmm, Well, all until you
contact the dealer, and learn that what they name affordable, is more like
2000 or 3000 dollars. Not what I want to put into any product, if I don't
have to. So, could you give us some exact figures, what will my bank account
be charged, for the end product, the way you see it right now. OK, no
promises, but some tangible estimates.
Secondly, your initial message did not make too much sense to me. Exactly
what are you trying to invent? We have talking products, like the cellphones
and PDAs. We have Braille notetakers, like the BrailleNote. And we have
units, like the TopBraille, which does (from what I have read) attempt to
convert what is under the lense, to Braille and speech. Is your dream to
make something like a combination of all of this, or have I got messed up?
One thing that did add on to some trouble in getting your initial idea, is
that your message seems to hold a ton of equalsigns and other formatting
characters, and with speech as the reading method, your message lost its
meaning. So, please try to tell us, without all that formatting characters,
and see if even our brains will catch up with you. Smile.
As for a combined unit, that can give me a tactile picture of what the lense
sees, and can be used for notetaking, well fine enough. Only thing is, I see
several things that would block for such a combination. Move us way back to
the year 1990, and a company (I do hold they were from France, Europe), did
launch a product to the market, that did have a handheld camera, and some
Braille cells and keys. The idea was, that you would now see eight
characters - the one under the lense, and the seven previously read ones -
all at the same time. Sighted people will tend to think, this will increase
reading skills and speed. But the real world shows us that it is not
necessarily true. For most users, eight characters was only helping in
confusing their reading. Hardly anyone has ever touched this unit, and sorry
to say, I have forgotten its name. Why? Simply because it never made it into
any big sale. In fact, I have never talked to a user, who did use it over an
extended amount of time. Several other products tested out, showed that
anything much over three cells of Braille, would be useless. That is, the
standard 6 or 8 dots cells.
Now, what about the Optacon array? It holds 144 dots (or pixels), and for
normal print that is well enough. Yet, if I am to read small print, diagrams
or icons, I sometimes would have prefered mor like 200. If we are to use the
normal sized Braille character, with 1/10 inch, or 2.5mm spacing between
each dot, an array like the Optacon, would mean a size of more like 1-1/2
inches (close to 4cm) in each direction. To what extend it will be fully
possible to keep an overview of that big an area, with the use of one
fingertip at once, I am a bit uncertain. And, if you tend to think that you
want to make an Optacon display for more than one finger to be used
simultaneously - sorry Sir, but it won't work. Anything that will need more
than one finger, will loose its perceptivity, since some of the picture will
likely "land" in between the sensitive part of your fingers. This would
result in the user, moving his fingers up and down, and sideways, on the
display all the time, and definitely lower the reading speed.
Now, why all of this chat about the size of the displaying cell? Because I
do see some conflicts between the Braille representation of a character, and
the tactile representation of that same character. It all cooks down to the
fact, that your All-In-One unit, would have to have one displaying cell for
the tactile, and a set of Braille cells for Braille representations. My
guess is, that this will greatly increase the pricing. Or, have you come up
with a genial way of combining Braille and tactile representations? I am all
ears, if that is the case.
Now, if you want to simply make a PDA, with all its features, and then have
it equipped with some kind of OCR that translate things from the camera,
into Braille and speech, the idea may be good enough. Yet, it has already
been done, to some extent. A cellphone (smart phone), along with a portable
Braille display, and you have it all on the market several years ago. Just
combining that into one unit, I am not sure if I would prefer that. A
combined unit will have to offer me some extra convenience, should I prefer
to have my money spend on it. If I still need to have a Braille display on
my desktop or laptop computer, still have to invest in a cellphone with
speech, still have to buy a scanner and OCR, and on top of all of that, have
to spend a small fortune on a product that is attempting to combine much of
this - well, my budget is not roomy enough.
Again, Charles, I and many with me, are eager to hear your further
explanations of your idea. In general, anything that could modernize the
Optacon idea, is of interest. But from the little you gavvee us, I am afraid
it raises more questions, than answers. So, please, will you come back, and
tell us something more of your project? Then, we will be more likely to give
you constructive feedback. Smile.
----- Original Message -----
From: "C Pond" <cpond@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 1:24 AM
Subject: [optacon-l] Re: optacon / braille PDA combination
> The answer is obviously in what I had written to you. The cost of the
> actuators is 1/20 to 1/30 that of the bimorph actuators. So, if a braille
> cell consisting of 8 bimorph actuators costs between $120 and $150, an
> 8-dot
> cell using these actuators cost from about $4 to $6. An optacon display
> simply follows.
>
> Charles
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gary Patterson
> Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2013 5:36 PM
> To: optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [optacon-l] Re: optacon / braille PDA combination
>
> You haven't answered my question. The price is 1/20 or 1/30. What does
> this
> mean?
>
> Gary Patterson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: optacon-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:optacon-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of C Pond
> Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2013 9:16 AM
> To: optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [optacon-l] Re: optacon / braille PDA combination
>
> The price of an actuator itself appears to be 1/20 to 1/30 the cost of a
> simular bimorph actuator. The actuators can be used to construct either
> optacon displays or braille displays or whatever the builder has in mind.
> At this point, refinements and production techniques are in order.
>
> Charles
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gary Patterson
> Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2013 11:50 PM
> To: optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [optacon-l] Re: optacon / braille PDA combination
>
> The combination sounds good. I did not understand the speculative price,
> 1/30 to 1/20? What does the mean?
>
> Gary Patterson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: optacon-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:optacon-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of C Pond
> Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2013 9:54 PM
> To: optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [optacon-l] optacon / braille PDA combination
>
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="UTF-8"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What are people=E2=80=99s
> thoughts of an optacon which is combined with = a top-notch notetaker
> (P.D.A. more correctly) with a braille display, = OCR and all? This is no
> way way compromise the function of an optacon; = in fact, it would enhance
> the optacon=E2=80=99s usefulness. I = can=E2=80=99t say too much yet, for
> there is much work to be done and = specific refinements to make.
> However,
> it appears that an optacon-like = display with equal or better tactile
> resolution is not too distantly = around the corner. The cost might be
> from
> 1/30 to 1/20 the cost of the = original venerable bimorph-constructed
> display. The programmable chips = which are being considered as drivers
> might be more costly than the =
> actuators themselves. How do you like that eh?
>
> So, what of the braille PDA optacon combination? Anyone?
>
> Charles
> Ottawa
>
>
>
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