Hi Nick. Answers: 1. An array with different/lesser tactile parameters was not the point. The size of the array if one were built today is not what I meant; it is the size of a new, stand-alone optacon which could be like a cassette container. The array can be as large or as small as one wishes. As for cost, the cost of a new optacon could be less than the original price, but the tactile display would still be expensive. Nowadays, with better materials to make the bimorfhs, and dedicated driver chips for anything like this problem (backplane drivers for visual displays, drivers for MEMs), the display could be smaller and use less power than those in our optacons, but the cost might likely be around a thousand or so Cdn (wild guess). 2. Connecting a tactile array to an OCR thing would not be as big a deal as one would think. Whether trivial or not is not a distracting concern for creative designers. Connecting a tactile array to an oCR system (my Braille display is connected to my computer) has the benefit of allowing the consumer to add on what they wish, when they wish and at a pace affordable to them. I doubt that a stand-alone optacon would sell nowadays, but a module might. Of course, the access device MUST have a what- you-feel-is-what-you-get mode for real-time optacon-like use. I'd probably use that mode more than other image processing or image enhancement modes. At this point, let me deal with the false belief on the list that says that somehow the optacn simply pipes the exact camera image directly to the tactile array, photosensor to tactile stimulator, albeit there is a one-to-one mapping. This is the impression which we have. Although there is no image OCR'ing as with a package like K1000, there is signal handling and digital decisions being made by the optacon's circuits which create and affect what we feel on our finger. What we feel is actually rebuilt and scanned onto our finger. It is not a simple straight- through feeding of a tactile image to the display. The camera is actually scanned to see which photosensors are excited (excites me too). Also, "decisions" are made by the comparator circuitry in the threshold feature to decide how bright or dark parts of the image are relative to each other, and notably to a preselected electrical level, which is then displayed for us as either vibrating or passive pins. We perceive, quite accurately, what the camera "sees", but we little know the stuff which goes on in the black box to make it so. Even the image which we feel on our finger is scanned on" electronically speaking, but done so quickly that we perceive it as a solid, spontaneously fluid process of a tactile shape. If Richard or Dave or someone like this is on the list, they can clarify or correct me here. So, the tactile image which we feel is actually scanned at several stages, and rebuilt for us to perceive. So, what is the technical objection to a digital component to a new real-time optacon system? 3. What we (you in this example) want can be done with a real-time optaconer, whether built in 1973 or 2008. But for the sake of being the Adversary's Advocate (whose days are short as the Bible says): if a picture of something is snapped, reading it later on won't change the information on the original image. It won't have changed by the time we get around to reading it a few seconds later. Speaking in milliseconds delay time, the optacon itself stores image pieces (well actually "bits") in various shift registers and latches until it is ready to have the tactile display reflect them. so, whether we're talking in minutes, seconds or milliseconds, the issue is the same, philosophically. As for reading a BIOs: 1. You `an use an optacon with a crt lens or with the light of the standard one shut off. 2. You can do a screen dump to a printer and read the printout. 3. You can send it to a Braille notetaker (the F.s. ones are be>ter for this than the Pulsedata ones I feel), and read the file while counting your keystrokes. Yep, life is a challenge. :) Charles --- From: nickdotson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ("W. Nick Dotson") Subject: Re: Camera That Talks 1. The tactile array had a specific matrix, and granularity because scientifically conducted medical studies proved the efficacy of an array with the characteristics used in the Model R1 devices. Those of us who use it heavily, for the mostpart, were considerably less impressed with the R2's array. What if any benefit could be garnered from an array that was broader than that of the 2-fingered Japanese model? And, what is going to drive down the manufacturing cost of the array? 2. Linking an OCR-Oriented device, which does alot of preprocessing before OCR'ing the image, to a tactile array is not going to be a trivial task, and to what end would such a linkage be beneficial? 3. I do like the idea of being able to explore a computer screen text graphics and all, as one sort of could with the Model 2's, but, I'd want something freed of the constraints of having to necessarily be tied to specific OS'(s), if possible, perhaps even something giving one access to the BIOS, but those are almost mutually exclusive of hardware and software dependencies... Nick On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 16:48:12 -0400 (EDT), Charles Pond wrote: rather than simply rebuilding the optacon using the original circuit designs with today's technology, it might be sensible to build a USB-compatible tactile array in a box with the needed controls, and plug it into something like this "camera that talks". I other words, alter and refine oleg's readiog machine-based approach. Does it make sense to re-develop a stand-alone optacon? From what I am piecing together over time of how the optacon R1D and II work (here a little, there a little), and with today's technology, it would seem feasible to build an optacon about the size of a cassette tape case or thereabouts. (maybe not including battery?) Charles Shown 74%, press <SPACE> for more, 'q' to quit, or 'h' for help To unsubscribe at any time, just send a message to: optacon-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" (without the quotes) in the message subject. Tell your friends about the list. They can subscribe by sending a message to: optacon-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "subscribe" (without the quotes) in the message subject. To unsubscribe at any time, just send a message to: optacon-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" (without the quotes) in the message subject. Shown 93%, press <SPACE> for more, 'q' to quit, or 'h' for help Tell your friends about the list. 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