When we did solids at SPL we just used a pneumatic turbine vibrator on a
table mounted on rubber elements.
My simple mind never rised the idea to use my nice Bruel&Kjaer Vibration
Exciter System 4811 just for vibratory compaction ;-) but why not...
Bruno
Am 31.01.2020 um 01:05 schrieb Anthony Cesaroni:
You can rent dynamic shakers if you just want to experiment.
https://www.atecorp.com/category/shaker-test-systems?utm_campaign=2058629958&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_content=374945914987&utm_term=dynamic%20shakers&adgroupid=74363714525&gclid=Cj0KCQiAmsrxBRDaARIsANyiD1pUSs2jZ3p32ODS8c_4WBSL4ZcRa0FX2GxcpHfjnLDY9iXrief0xzYaAtc8EALw_wcB
…and then there’s eBay.
https://www.ebay.com/b/shaker-table/bn_7024898956
I have a 3500 pound force Unholz Dickie unit at the Toronto plant but I
could never convince anyone to haul it out to one of the mix shops to
try anything along these lines.
Anthony J. Cesaroni
President/CEO
Cesaroni Technology/Cesaroni Aerospace
http://www.cesaronitech.com/
(941) 360-3100 x101 Sarasota
(905) 887-2370 x222 Toronto
*From:* arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> *On
Behalf Of *William Claybaugh
*Sent:* Thursday, January 30, 2020 6:53 PM
*To:* arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* [AR] Re: Vibratory compaction
Joe:
As Terry noted in an earlier email, brand new pneumatic actuators are a
few tens of dollars, if they would work.
Anthony pointed out that the exact same actuator (as used by one
supplier) is used in welding and thus available surplus.
I’ve found that a near copy of what somebody else has developed is often
a small fraction of the retail price thanks to amortization of
development costs. This is why being second to market is sometimes the
best strategy.
Bill
On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 4:38 PM Joe Bowen <joe.b.bowen@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:joe.b.bowen@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
If we're talking something dirt cheap and sorta hacked together...
what about something like an electric motor out of an old washing
machine with an offset weight?
Joe
On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 4:35 PM William Claybaugh
<wclaybaugh2@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:wclaybaugh2@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
We used to have to clear the building and warn the neighbors
when we did acoustic testing of spacecraft at a former employer.
Done by a company whose main business was audio for stadium
concerts: just stack the speaker’s high in a small circle and
crank up the launch vehicle profile.
Bill
On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 4:15 PM rebel without a job
<rebelwithoutajob@xxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:rebelwithoutajob@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Extra vibration can be had with a good sound system. A
sufficiently powerful sound system may obviate the need for
the truck.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Von:*arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> im Auftrag von
William Claybaugh <wclaybaugh2@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:wclaybaugh2@xxxxxxxxx>>
*Gesendet:* Thursday, January 30, 2020 5:07:10 PM
*An:* arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
*Betreff:* [AR] Re: Vibratory compaction
Ed:
Oh I do wish that would repeatedly work: the last mile of
the road out to the MTA would be perfect....
Bill
On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 3:53 PM Edward Wranosky
<edwardcw@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:edwardcw@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Does "vacuum container in the back of a truck on a
washboard road" count? Modulate the frequency with the
gas pedal.
On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 3:39 PM Anthony Cesaroni
<anthony@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:anthony@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
If you can get your hands on a surplus, high power
vibration welder, you could conceivably build your
own for a lot less. The drivers are identical. They
don’t have the advantage of delivering multiple
frequencies simultaneously but they are very
effective nonetheless.
Anthony J. Cesaroni
President/CEO
Cesaroni Technology/Cesaroni Aerospace
http://www.cesaronitech.com/
(941) 360-3100 x101 Sarasota
(905) 887-2370 x222 Toronto
*From:* arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> *On Behalf Of
*Terry McCreary
*Sent:* Thursday, January 30, 2020 5:03 PM
*To:* arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* [AR] Re: Vibratory compaction
Last time I looked at one of those RAM units, I
thought it ran to six figures... Have they come down
in price?
Best -- Terry
On 1/30/2020 2:58 PM, William Claybaugh wrote:
Anthony:
Resonate Acoustic Mixing (RAM) appears to offer
the ability to mix very heavily loaded pastes
with low shear (in contrast to conventional
mixing) and very quickly (seconds rather than
minutes or hours). Since there is no mixing
paddle, there is no vacuum rotary joint and
applying vacuum is trivial.
I’ll apply vibration to the post mixing vacuum
for my next test just to see what improvement
that produces but will be looking into using
vibration to get rid of the conventional mixer
altogether.
Bill
On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 9:31 AM Anthony Cesaroni
<anthony@xxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:anthony@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
If you mix under a vacuum, vibration should
not be required.
One approach I saw being used by an amateur
group in the 90s was to mix the propellant
into a simple cylindrical vacuum chamber
that had a shaft connected to a set of
blades inside. The shaft had a rotary seal
that permitted the shaft to move in and out
the length of the tube as well as rotate.
The tube was made from clear polymer and was
about 6” in diameter and 48” long. I have no
idea how well this worked in practice and
what was used to mitigate shaft deflection
and possible blade strike. This was the 90s
when HPR was the “wild west” of rocketry.
They published a brochure about it that I
may still have in my Toronto library.
Anthony J. Cesaroni
President/CEO
Cesaroni Technology/Cesaroni Aerospace
http://www.cesaronitech.com/
(941) 360-3100 x101 Sarasota
(905) 887-2370 x222 Toronto
*From:* arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> *On
Behalf Of *William Claybaugh
*Sent:* Thursday, January 30, 2020 11:08 AM
*To:* arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* [AR] Re: Vibratory compaction
Anthony:
Yep. But also about understanding the cost
of performance.
I’m also wondering about just doing all the
mixing with vibration and vacuum. It seems
possible that for 150 lbm. lots that might
be a plausible solution.
Bilk
On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 8:19 PM Anthony
Cesaroni <anthony@xxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:anthony@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Bill,
Is this about your pursuit of improving
propellant density without hving access
to vacuum mixing equipment?
Anthony J. Cesaroni
President/CEO
Cesaroni Technology/Cesaroni Aerospace
http://www.cesaronitech.com/
(941) 360-3100 x101 Sarasota
(905) 887-2370 x222 Toronto
*From:* arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
*On Behalf Of *William Claybaugh
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 29, 2020 12:51 PM
*To:* arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* [AR] Re: Vibratory compaction
Shane:
Is this done after or during mixing?
If the latter, I—and I suspect
others—would be very interested in your
process: for example, how long do you
apply vacuum / vibration before casting
the grain(s)? Have you documented the
difference in final propellant density?
I found that 10 minutes under vacuum
after mixing resulted in density going
from 0.055 to 0.058 lbsm. / cu. in., for
a specific propellant formulation, for
example. Do you have a guess as to what
additional density might be achieved
from vibration? Note that theoretical
is 0.065 for this propellant.
I’m trying to make an economic
calculation here: for my next
generation (composite) 6” motors,
getting to 0.060 lbsm. / cu. in.
Increases propellant fraction from 70%
to 72%; given my estimate of the cost of
a vibratory table, I’m looking to
understand if that investment produces
greater performance gain than
alternative weight saving investments.
Bill
On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 10:34 AM
<spcdestiny01@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:spcdestiny01@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
At my school we use the vacuum while
it’s on the vibration table to
remove all air bubbles and increase
the density.
Hope that helps,
Shane Cullen
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jan 29, 2020, at 10:27 AM,
William Claybaugh
<wclaybaugh2@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:wclaybaugh2@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>
>
> Anyone have experience w/
vibratory compaction if solid rocket
propellant, with or without vacuum?
>
> Initial search did not turn up
anything specific....
>
> Bill
--
Dr. Terry McCreary
Professor Emeritus
Murray State University
Murray KY 42071
