[AR] Re: Regarding Univerity solid rockets for cube-sat launch to orbit

  • From: Henry Vanderbilt <hvanderbilt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2018 15:27:40 -0700

On 3/3/2018 2:58 PM, Henry Spencer wrote:

On Sat, 3 Mar 2018, Henry Vanderbilt wrote:
Small correction:  Titan III.  One of the changes made for Titan IV, in fact, was development of new improved SRBs... (The first few Titan IVs flew with the old SRBs because the new ones ran late...)

Small correction to the small correction <grin> Indeed, the Titan IV A had the old 7-segment SRM, with liquid injection TVC.  The IV B had the new upgraded 3-segment SRMU with gimballed nozzles...

And a small correction to the s.c. to the s.c. :-)  Now that you've reminded me of it, I was told at the time (never went digging to confirm) that officially, what *really* made a Titan a IVB was the various changes made to the core -- including bringing it into full conformance with Cape safety rules for the first time (!).  That is, it was theoretically possible to have a IVB with the old SRBs, although I don't think that ever actually happened.

(Also -- more background than a correction -- calling the new SRB design "upgraded" was a bit of a euphemism.  It was a tip-to-toe redesign, by a different supplier, with different propellant mix, slightly larger size, and longer casing segments made of composites rather than steel, in addition to the gimbaling nozzle.  It was also an object lesson in the perils of trying to do a firm-fixed-price development contract with a company long wedded to cost-plus practices:  Hercules badly underestimated development costs.  In fact, I was told that the explosion of the first prototype was another case of Hubble Mirror Syndrome:  "we can't afford the man-hours to figure out exactly what's going on there, so officially the uncertainty does not exist".)

If the corrections become fully recursive, does the infinitely-nested-corrections t-shirt then spontaneously self-generate out of the quantum vacuum flux? (So now we both either have or don't have a t-shirt.)

All that aside, Titan IV was indeed almost as big an illustration of How Not To Develop A Launch Vehicle as was Shuttle. Very much why what became DC-X was originally entrusted to neither NASA nor USAF.

And people who've since taken to disparaging Atlas 5 and Delta 4 forget their original purpose, in which they both succeeded: To NOT be as ridiculously expensive, labor-intensive, and fragile as either Shuttle or Titan IV.

Atlas 5 achieved that better than Delta 4, of course, but that's a whole new level of digressions...

Henry


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