Learning curve, yes. And I guess pricing too was a show-stopper for
many. Not sure what the Optacon cost in the USA, but over here it was
something equivalent to 7000 dollars or so, in the late 90's. Given the
average income of most users, who often were on their disability pension
budget, that would mean half a year or more of income. Literally, more
than a second-hand car. Browse the list archives, and you will find
stories how people here financed their Optacon. Don't let us have a
storm of repititions on that part.
Agreed, the learning curve is a challenge. Consider the following. Why
is it that the number of Braille users are declining? Because it takes
efforts to learn Braille. First you've learned it, you still have to
spend energy on moving your hands back and forth over the lines, and
deal with heavy, bulky books. Audiobooks have been the preference of
many, even in the days of the cassette tape. With today's electronically
stored audiobooks, the comparison to Braille is even more unfair. And
what's more, you do not need to wait for anyone to narrate the book any
longer, you simply go ahead and buy the EBook version. It does not cost
anything more than what your peers have to spend, and nor does it take
up any more space than their copy. First you own the EBook, you can go
for a print out in Braille, or you can decide if it should be read by
your male or female speech synthesizer. You can put it on your mobil
device, and bring it along wherever you want, without bringing any extra
unit. So what more flexibility do you want?
Admittedly, the number of users won't reach the skies. What was it he
sang, Terry Jacks:
"The only stars we could reach, were the star-fish on the beach."
If anyone intend to develop a next gen Optacon, hoping to make big money
on the project, they better spend their time on something more fruitful.
But exactly how much money do they make, the ones manufacturing the
Braille displays of your computer. And who makes the money on the
old-time runner: Perkins Brailler. Still, they are in the market, and
still users benefit from them.
Yes, I am one of those who have raised the questions you Steve point
out. The market of a new Optacon won't be all that big. At least not if
today's technology is going to be the standard. Still, that does not say
it cannot have its clear-cut place in the market. If they can develop,
manufacture and marketing the Grafiti for 15K, I am ready to say you
could manufacture whatever and hope for a market to pick it up. Smiles.
And what learning curve will be on a Grafiti? Will be quite interesting
to hear. All I've heard of it till now, was some kind of a podcast, a
couple of years ago, while still under development. And all it told, was
some inthusiastic testperson who did praise it all to the moon and back.
Now that it is here, let's have some real-life experience, and see if it
really will be a success. Many good reasons why it would, but we will
need some user experience to determine.
Hooked up with a camera, perhaps the Grafiti could have replaced the
Optacon in a very few situations. Given all the possibilities of the
mobil device features, and the OCR/scanner solutions available, many a
user will be helped out in their daily routines.
What we overlook a bit here though, is the learning curve of modern
technology. Believe me, I have been training blind students in using OCR
and scanners. That was in the days when not every person in the street
owned a personal computer. Many a neighbor would not even be using one
in their workplace. Teaching a blind person to handle a piece of paper -
to him all blank looking - is one thing. How to know to put it on the
scanner the right way, how to operate the OCR software and so forth. But
that was only part of the story. The real challenge was to let him
understand why the OCR mis-interpreted certain characters. Luckily I was
a driven Optacon user already at the time, and could inform him of the
similarity between the number 9, and a lower-cased G. Unless you
understand that kind of issues, it was hard to deal with the OCRs of the
days. Allright then, today's OCR have come a far way. At the time, we
were happy when our OCR had a score of some 80% correct reading. Today,
you would complain, did it go much under 95% - and usually you expect
more like 98 or 99 percent accuracy. Did technology of today stick, we
would soon enough see plain old-style handwriting disappear from the
scene. In certain places, you don't sign contracts anymore, by using a
pen. You do your signing all electronically, by some three-levelled
password and coding system. Certain offices have gone all paperless.
More and more correspondance - even from public services, banks and
medical care institutions - is being cared for by means of cloud
services. And for all of that, you would hardly be able to convince much
young ones they need an Optacon, however advanced and feature-loaded it
might be.
Then there would be all the cases when an Optacon is inavoidable. List
archives are full of such stories. Of course, noone is using a
typewriter in their job any longer, so no need for a reading device for
that kind of operations. And most young ones today are not used to the
kind of independent living that we did a few decades ago. Then again,
they never had the kind of learning curves we struggled. To them, a
cellphone is the norm of the day. They grew up with scanners and OCR all
surrounding them. The day they learned to read, they by long knew how
the computer was reading a piece of paper. Some jokey guy claimed that
today's babies learn to operate an Iphone, long before they learn to
speak. hahah. Thing is, they climb the learning curve as they grow up,
one step at a time, in such tiny increments they don't even notice.
You ask how many of them would be interested in the Optacon? Good
question. Noone knows, as none of them have had a hands-on experience
with the technology and its potentials. Let me just add one extra
question here. How many of today's young ones, would be active Braille
users? Not that they know the Braille alphabet, and can make a few
notes, read a short novel. But really are active Braille users. People
who would prefer a Braille book for their studying projects. And given
the chance, how many of them would be able to move too much around
outside, without a white cane. A good number, most certainly. But not
peak high. Still, we do have Braillers, and we do get white canes.
One estimate would be, that young ones now aday, don't miss what they
don't have. They never had the Optacon, learned to live their lives
without, and manage pretty well. If they cannot read the display on
their TV, they find alterntive ways, or simply go find other hobbies and
activities. I could give you a handful or more good reasons why people
may want to drive a Diesel car. Yet more and more people get electrical
cars, or even learn to live without a car altogether. What we found to
be useful in our days, and still benefit from, may not necessarily fit
into a lifestyel of these days. But given the right price, and not too
overloaded with features, who knows what an Optacon could benefit a
modern user. At least something the developers should consider.
Give us cellphones and volunteers who can serve as narrators when we
make use of things like tab-tab-see, or be-my-eyes. Give us scanners and
OCR. Give us an Optacon, and leave us with sighted assistance in our
daily living. As a total it might amount to something compensating for
our sight loss, to a certain degree. But none of it could be viewed as a
complete solution all on its own.
Your point about the cost in engineering and marketing the Optacon, is
quite valid. So is the point you make about the users on this list.
Might not be much participants anything younger than the Optacon
technology itself. Little wonder, it hasn't been available for the last
two decades. How could people learn, when no learning units are
available. And likely it might happen, that the Optacon will go down,
with the last user. Guess we all wish for a new Optacon, but what we are
calling for, is a modernized version of old technology. Are we really
ready to receive an updated version, that would meet the requests and
demands from the upcoming generation? Think probably something hybrid
between the Optacon, and today's alternatives. That would give us the
better of both worlds. Yet what would that be? Smiles.
On 3/26/2020 8:30 PM, Maureen Hogg wrote:
It all comes down to attitude, Steve. And motivation. You areto view the list archives, go to:
referencing generational changes that are not necessarily for the better
- changes in educational and social norms. The Millenials and Generation
Y are not interested because they were not instilled with the proper
education or motivation. You are also assuming there was always a mass
market for it. There never was. There will also never be a mass market
for the newer apps in assistive technology. And given how many releases
Apple can go through in a five year period, the assistive apps now out
there will be history.
An improved Optacon with an adaptable design surely has a market. The
"disabled" community will always need the able-bodied community's help
in real time. No amount of technology is going to alter that. Technology
can, nonetheless, mitigate the need.
How many younger people do I know who have an interest in the Optacon?
My neighbor down the street who is a high partial and 40 years old. She
was astonished to learn she could read on her own without a scanner or a
free telephone service. She was eager to learn about the technology. And
I've talked to the able-bodied 40-somethings who are intrigued by it.
They begin to tick off the things I can do with an Optacon without my
explaining it all to them.
It's like a Japanese abacus. Recall how an expert on that "outdated
technology" was able to beat a computer on some higher mathematics. Not
bad for a centuries-old "device."
Maureen
On 3/26/2020 12:55 PM, Steve (Redacted sender k8sp for DMARC) wrote:
I am not of the opinion that patents killed the Optacon.to view the list archives, go to:
What killed the Optacon is technological progress. In economics, one would
call this "marginal cost", for most people, reading text got much easier
when software became available that worked with off-the-shelf scanners to
convert text into audio. You didn't need excellent motor skills or good
sensory capability to read; you didn't need to go through intensive training
of four weeks or so to be able to read at a nominal 50 words-per-minute when
you can put a page on a scanner and read at 250 wpm almost immediately.
Are there things that you can do with an Optacon that couldn't be done with
a scanner?
Certainly, but here again, technology is changing that landscape.
There are apps which can recognize handwritten materials.
There are services that can describe charts and graphs.
Some of this can be done free of charge.
What I'm saying is there are very few needs that can't be met by a currently
available alternative for cheaper that are quicker and present almost no
learning curve.
I know this is not popular to say on this list, but I think a good reality
dose is in order.
What is the market for such a device given all the considerations I've
outlined above? Other than this list of dedicated users, how many people
who are Millennials, or Generation Z, do you know of who have expressed
interest in an Optacon? Exclude all of us on this list who are Baby
Boomers, or a few older than that of the Silent Generation; and who is left?
Can you imagine how much an Optacon would cost after you spread out the
engineering and product development costs once you exclude all of us who are
basically not in the job market or educational market any more?
I just don't see any way that such a device can be justified for the very
limited niche market that might be available.
Steve
Lansing, MI
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mallard" <mallard@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; <dan.tevelde@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2020 5:59 AM
Subject: [optacon-l] Re: Hi, Optaconers
..And all the people said: AMEN!to view the list archives, go to:
Amen to this message!
Plus: Open Hardwaer and Open Softeare, please! No moe patents, which is
what eventually killed the Optacon.
Ciao,
Ollie, Androidian forever and ever
On 26/03/2020 02:44, dan.tevelde@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
I think you might be overcomplicating things. Any new optacon wouldth
probably have to have zoom features just like the ones you find on phones
and are used in computer magnification software. NO doubt the best
platform for a new optacon would be Android mobile. A mobile device is
very portable and easy to update. Android is the most open software
platform for development. App updates don't need to be approved by
Google. The only certification would be the initial certification of the
optacon as a trusted device to Google.
Having the optacon be a mobile device would offer the most flexibility.
It's also the type of device most people are familiar with.
Dan
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: optacon-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <optacon-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On
Behalf Of David
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 3:03 PM
To: optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; Carolyn <4carolyna@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [optacon-l] Re: Hi, Optaconers
Eh, do we see one of the few cases, where we could wish for an electronic
feature of the next generation Optacon?
We have been talking of the benefit of the Optacon leaving all the
interpretation to the human brain. And yet, what if you got a new
Optacon. you sit down and do your reading, and come across a part of the
text in thick print. You now press a button on the Optacon, and a tiny
piece of software kicks in. It does no interpretation, no reshaping, no
nothing. What it is all about, is that it will scan the picture of the
character, and rip off all the thickness. What is left for you to feel,
is a true copy of the character, but with thinner lines.
The basics of the technology could be described as follows.
Scan the image;
Look for continuous lines in the image, where three or more needles next
to each others are active; Cut off one of the needles in such cases.
Your shape-lines of the character, now will be one needle thinner. If you
press the button once again, the software will go one step further,
taking the shape-lines down to one needle - the thinnest and most crisp
you could get.
Of course, there are the moments, when you find yourself wishing there
would be a chance to thicken some text. That could specially be, when a
font type has very thin lines in the top and bottom of the characters.
In such cases, there could be a second button, leaving you the chance to
activate extra needles on the thinner parts of the image.
What do you think. This would be no interpretation, but more a bit of
assistance in "seeing" the shape more clearly, leaving you the better
chance to perform the recognition of the characters. Promise you, when
dealing with things like electronic diagrams, I've been wishing for some
kind of ways to make the lines thicker, just as frequently as I wish
there would be ways to make shapes thinner.
As a bit of a sidenote here, which goes along the same line of ideas, how
about when you read text that vary between bold (emphasized) text, and
plain characters. Or, where you would have a mix of fonts, some more
outstanding than others. Great if you are eager to know the outlook of
the page. And necessary whenever you are to deal with certain features of
the material you read, like recognizing and distinguish the very number,
in a mathematical formula. But it often leads to extensive thumbling with
the knobs of the Optacon, raising and lowering the intensity and
thickness of the displayed image. What if the next Gen Optacon had a
feature, that could be turned on, which would attempt to give some mild
equalization through out the text. It would attempt to reduce the
boldness of the boldest print, somehow making it close to the rest of the
text. A trained user would still feel a slight boldness to the print, but
it would be no more than what still would be readable, without any fur
er adjustment. Kind of ato view the list archives, go to:
"This is my reading level"-setting.
This level of adjustment could be saved, and brought up, whenever the
user wants to do a plain reading of text. You then can go for the raw
reading, like we have to day, if you need all the whistles and bells of
the text layout. But in most daily activities, when you do not care much
about the layout, only want to get to the info, the levelled-reading
could be activated.
And yes, of course any such settings should be divided into as small
steps as possible in practical terms. Having only one or two steps of
adjusting, may prove unacceptable. Again, blowing the Optacon with 129
steps for adjusting, will likely be little practically beneficial, and
rather prove frustrating. Something between 8 and 12 steps, either
direction, might be useful. You then could go from minus 12, to plus 12
- 0 being the standard, or Raw mode. Raw mode, would be what we already
have on our current Optacon models.
Technically, these features are possible, and not too difficult to
implement in the software - I would conclude. It is all about algorithms,
and is being done in photo handling in dedicated applications on your
computer and cellphone already. Without me having checked it up, I am
ready to think there might be some freeware algorithms available on the
net already, that could be used for such up and down scaling of the
thickness and boldness of scannings of the printed text.
Lastly, one more thing that I find myself often wishing for, is the
chance of bi-derectional scaling of the image. You all are familiar with
the slider on top of the camera, leaving you the chance of adjusting the
magnification of the character a bit. But it seem to only change the
hight of the character. I wish there would be ways, to adjust the
magnification either direction. Sometimes it would have been nice to
widen the character a bit, other times it is nice to lower the hight.
And there would even be times when you need do a bit of adjustment to
both the hight and width of the character, to have the best reading
experience. Specially this comes true, when you deal with symbols, icons
and things like diagrams of different sorts. If the slider had been
replaced with a four way button, like the arrow-button on some old-style
cellphones and remote controls, you could have stepped up and down in
either hight or width. Press Up-arrow to raise the hight, Down-arrow to
lower it. Press Right-arrow to increase the width, and left-Arrow to
decrease. Even some users might find that they would read better, if the
character could be centered more to the point on their finger, where they
hold the highest sensitivity.
Don't know, what the rest of you think. Got a few more ideas here, but
we'll save them for later.
On 3/25/2020 6:34 PM, Carolyn wrote:
> I agree about thick print, as opposed to thin and sharp
> print.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: optacon-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:optacon-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
> harlynn@xxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 3:18 AM
> To: optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [optacon-l] Hi, Optaconers
>
> This is Bob from Brooklyn, NY. I have been using my optacon
> to go over
> mail: I read part with the optacon, and part with my Sara.
> I like how they work together. I find that my main problem
> is still that I often think I know the next word in a
> sentence, and then realize I guessed wrong, and have to go
> back and figure it out.
>
> Very thick print is challenging for me. But regular print,
> I can do pretty well.
>
> I hope all of you are safe, and perhaps using some down time
> to use your optacons!
>
> Kind regards,
> Bob
>
>
> to view the list archives, go to:
>
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>
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