Hi Mary!
I'm glad I am not the only one who wants to stay with a flip phone. All I
want it for is to make and receive calls, though most of the time, I'm
making them. I don't use it that much except for calling cabs, mostly. I
like the fact that I don't need a contract. I just buy minutes on my
T-mobile account when I need to.
Debby
At 08:53 AM 7/31/2017, Mary Lorefice wrote
Me neither. I'll stick with my LG Flip Phone.
Mary L
-----Original Message-----
From: optacon-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:optacon-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Carolyn Arnold
Sent: Monday, July 31, 2017 9:37 AM
To: optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [optacon-l] Re: Fwd: Re: smart phone comparisons and which is best
One of my complaints with the iPhone is that I could not dial 1 for
English, as an example, when I made a call that required number input.
With my feature phone with actual keys, that is not a problem. It just
seems to me that people put up with too much hassle, which must be worth
it to most people, but not to me. I am not a one to tolerate unnecessary
problems.
Best from,
Carolyn
-----Original Message-----
From: optacon-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:optacon-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bruce Noblick
Sent: Monday, July 31, 2017 6:22 AM
To: optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [optacon-l] Fwd: Re: smart phone comparisons and which is best
I had a nearly opposite experience. On my first two Android devices, I
required a lot of help getting talkback and brailleback activated. When I
got so frustrated that I wanted to bounce the tablet off the wall across
the room, I gave it up. They told me I could return it within two weeks
so I did. They gave it to me for free but were going to charge me $10 a
month. I had to pay a $70 restocking fee to return it which was annoying
but still less expensive than $10 per month for two years. I got my
second one for free with a security system upgrade. It worked slightly
better but I still navigated myself into a barrel.I still have that one
but I haven't been able to get it out and fight with it for months. I am
having slightly better luck with the next one and a lot better luck with
the fourth one but it hides much of the operating system interface. These
last two devices weren't free and I don't want to talk bad about them
since the problems I am having may very well be in my
own head. Before I got the iPhone which I have had much better
experience with, I met someone who I paid to teach me about it and only
after I could use it, I got one the next time I could upgrade. My only
problem is using iTunes on the windows computer. The screen seems so
cluttered. I want to get all of my music on the iPhone and can't -- not
enough room. I have split up my music into chunks and now can't figure
out how to get it onto the iPhone. I have been able to get most of my
music from the iPhone but not all. Even with that annoyance, my
experience has been so much better with Apple, even though they always
have to use proprietary software and hardware that won't work well with
other devices. This is a problem they have had ever since the days of
the floppy disk. I don't remember the specific problem in specific
detail but in general it had to do with hard and soft sectors. I think
theirs were hard sectored which meant that very small holes in the media
itself were
used to identify the beginning of the track and each sector. By then,
everyone else was using soft sectored disks so they could all read each
other's disks if necessary. This was especially handy before MSDOS using
CP/M when there were no precise standards for disk format. I used a
program called Media Master to move things from my Heathkit/zenith
computer to my IBM PC at work. Even back then, in the early 80's, you
couldn't move things from Apple 2E CP/M to anyone else's CP/M or
MSDOS. Apple didn't play well with others and didn't care. Even so, I
find myself grudgingly agreeing with them about voiceover. I have never
navigated myself into a barrel like I did with the first two Android devices.
I do have one other Android device. It is an Amateur Radio
transceiver. If you push a button while you turn it on, it comes up
talking and many of its menus talk too. I consider that device to be an
unqualified success story though it too hides the operating system behind
its own operations. One of the menu items allows you to eject the
micro-SD card but that is as close to the operating system as it
gets. You can format the micro-SD card too and copy some files to and
from it but all of that is under their software's control.
OK, that's enough from me.
Enjoy the day!
Bruce
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: [optacon-l] Re: smart phone comparisons and which is best
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2017 21:32:58 -0600
From: Judy Jones <sonshines59@xxxxxxxxx>
Reply-To: optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
I think both serve different markets. I am one that felt micro-managed by
Apple, that the iPhone was so locked down. As it turns out, I also had a
lemon device, not realizing it at the time. My daughter did not have that
device long before she traded in for another.
Then my first Android device in 2013 was the LG Optimus 2, recommended by
an AT&T sales person who had one and loved it. I liked mine as well, and
took to the Android platform much easier.
I also had occasion to play with and use other devices, as we were trying
to find the perfect one for my husband. All in all, I have had 10
different ones to use, and they all have been very satisfactory.
I like the choice Android provides in device, cost, and apps. If you
don't like stock apps, you can simply download others to take their
place. I like simply copy/pasting back and forth between my computer and
phone without iTunes trying to second guess what I want synchronized. For
the pure Android experience without the bloatware, many root their devices
successfully.
I like expandable memory on many of the Android phones, and use the SD
card to store music and all my kindle, BARD, and BookShare books, not to
mention photos and videos.
You can also create music play lists from a command line on your computer,
which is not necessary, but interesting you can do it.
One thing I did not know until a couple years ago, one of our state
product vendors came back from CSUN and told me that the Android platform
is more popular with the rest of the world because of diversity of devices
and cost.
Anyway, just my two cents and experience.
There are those of us who like to eat the same favorite entree when we
frequent a particular restaurant. You know what you want, you want to be
waited on, and you want your one entree. Very similar to the iPhone
experience. You are presented with a single choice.
Then, there is the dining experience of the buffet where you get to go
help yourself to lots of different dishes and exercise choice. This is
like experiencing Android. It seems the most apt comparison I can think
of, and both devices appeal to different people.
BTW, I like the braille support for Android, have found no problems with
it, but am told the braille support with the iPhone is better. I did not
have my iPhone long enough to experience hooking up, but again, I have
been able to hook up seamlessly with braille and in just a couple
seconds. Very dependable.
O yes, if you don't like a certain keyboard, there are multiple choices on
the play store, and many love BrailleSoft.
Judy
-----Original Message-----
From: optacon-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:optacon-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of C. Pond
Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2017 5:32 PM
To: optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [optacon-l] smart phone comparisons and which is best
Hi Judy. What do you think of the Apple smartphones compared to others?
I can't extrapolate your address, or I would have written you off list.
Thanks for your views,
Charles
-----Original Message-----
From: Judy Jones
Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2017 5:44 PM
To: optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [optacon-l] Re: New Optacon
In my time with Android I have never had TalkBack stop working or the
problems mentioned on the list. Remember that many of those people root
their phones, use various phones from various makers all over the world.
The Android is quite dependable, and with any changes you make, whether it
is rooting the phone, or various app combinations you use, you may have
things to work around. But TalkBack is dependable, so is BrailleBack, at
least in my 4 year experience since Android 4.
Judy
-----Original Message-----
From: optacon-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:optacon-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Carolyn Arnold
Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2017 2:42 PM
To: optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [optacon-l] Re: New Optacon
There is a Braille book, "Getting Started with Android," by Ana Garza.
However, I just sold mine and my tablet - goodbye for now to that stuff.
I've been reading this afternoon on the Eyes Free list, and half of those
smart people are asking about this and that on their phones, TalkBack
stopped working when a guy was on the phone, one had battery problems,
just a couple I can remember. I said, that is it. For sure, next phone
another feature one. I know more though about what to check in terms of
accessibility and durability.
Best from,
Carolyn
-----Original Message-----
From: optacon-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:optacon-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Debby Franson
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2017 10:12 PM
To: optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [optacon-l] Re: New Optacon
Hi Carolyn!
I have to agree. I never felt frustration while learning to use the
optacon, because I saw progress each time I started to use it in training
and when I came home. I have an Android Galaxy tablet from a few years
ago, and iPad and an iPod, and all I felt with those devices was total
frustration. I am old school, I think. I haven't touched any of that stuff
for at least a year. I know people who zip around on any of that stuff,
but I never saw any progress in my learning. I probably should get a book
that shows me how in braille, but my motivation is low now.
Debby
At 06:36 PM 7/29/2017, Carolyn Arnold wrote
I can say that I think an Optacon is way easier to learn to use than as technology
smart phone.
Best from,
Carolyn
-----Original Message-----
From: optacon-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:optacon-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Debby Franson
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2017 3:49 PM
To: optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [optacon-l] Re: New Optacon
Hi Doug!
I went to Philadelphia to take optacon training in 1981. Instead of
watching TV or going out in the evenings, I would read a book that I
brought from home that I also used in training along with the materials
the teacher had me try. As a result, I finished training a day or two
early. My teacher ran out of new things for me to experience. (smile).
At the university near our home, Illinois State University, one of the
things the university was known for was special education. I think the
visually impaired program isn't what it used to be. Students who were
studying to become teachers of the visually impaired would not only
learn braille, but there were several optacons in the department that
were used in class to give everyone experience. I was not in that
program, so I think no one had to become proficient, but just to have
the experience of trying to read something. I heard some of these
sighted people say that they couldn't distinguish one letter from another.
One of the professors asked my husband to ask me if I would be willing
to come in and test the optacons to see if they were still working. I
think they had phased out the optacon from the special education
program sometime in the early '90s. I tested twelve optacons, and they
were all working fine.
There is a very sad ending to this story. Oh, there is a happy bit, too.
That professor told my husband in late 1995 that the optacon was not
going to be manufactured, so I called TSI and bought two Optacon II's.
The horrible part of the story was that those optacons I tested
eventually got sent to property control who sent them to a place in
Springfield where they were stored for a few years. Eventually, the
place decided that they didn't have room to store them, so they just
disposed of them. The heartbreaking thing is that those optacons can
never be used by anyone.
The happy part of the story about the optacons that were at the
university was that the professor found one in a closet and gave it to
me. It's the R1D as they all were..
It seems that these rehab places have a one-track mind that is so narrow.
I have had little to do with them over the years, and I'm glad we have
the funds to buy or save up for what we need and want. If its not the
lack of interest for the optacon, it's over-interest in one screen reader.
It's too bad they can't have a more balanced mindset on all
technologies.
Debby
At 01:52 PM 7/29/2017, Doug Parisian wrote
Debby, I first learned the Opticon in 1977 and while using it to keepsucceeds in getting this optacon 3 marketed.
my job, attempted unsuccessfully to motivate our CNIB and our Special
needs department in the education branch to make use of the Opticon a
strong requirement. That skill is every bit as important as math,
science, daily living skills etc. Unfortunately, our rehabilitation
efforts are more ruled by social work and "head shrink" philosophies
rather than those which have proven to be successful in the business
and commerce world. A group of the 70s and 80s best summarizes the
requirements of much of life in their group name, Blood Sweat And Tears.
On 2017-07-29 1:30 PM, Debby Franson wrote:
Hi Judy!
It seems that they have become lazy. The optacon takes patience,
diligence and dedication, and I wonder if there are many who would
work at learning and becoming proficient in learning the optacon.
My husband teaches computer workshops of various kinds at a
university, and he says that the college students get frustrated
very easily if they don't get something within five minutes, so it
is a problem that is not limited to the blind.
Debby
At 12:16 PM 7/29/2017, Judy Jones wrote
The scary thing is that next genblind people don't care or
realize the power of independence they could have in their hands.
Judy
-----Original Message-----
From: optacon-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:optacon-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Debby
Franson
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2017 10:44 AM
To: optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [optacon-l] Re: New Optacon
Hi Dave!
Thanks for spreading the word about the optacon. We need an
optacon evangelist like you to show what this wonderful device
can do to open up things to people with no sight that the sighted
world takes for granted. I think the sighted world in general
just doesn't understand what an optacon is or what all it can do.
Those in the agencies think it's just obsolete technology, since
they haven't been made since 1996, I think it was and Charles has
not made his optacon into anything beyond a prototype yet. I sure
hope he
Debby
At 05:35 AM 7/29/2017, David Moore wrote
Hi Dan!
Thanks a lot for this great idea!
I will have my wife take a picture of me using the Optacon, and
I will put it on Facebook, Twitter, Linked in, and put it on
youtube as a video. I really want young people to see how I can
use the Optacon to do so many awesome tasks that
todayÃÆÃâÃâÃÆâÃââ¬â¢s technology
change.close tocannot come
o
doing!
!
I will get on it LOL!
Thanks!
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: dan.tevelde@xxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 9:28 PM
To: optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [optacon-l] Re: New Optacon
Hi Carolyn,
I would forget about organizations for the blind for now. They
already have their projects and priorities which they don't want
to
funding campaign.Many younger people don't find organizations for the blind relevant.than through official channels.
We need to target a different audience. I would do that by
having very professionally created videos on YouTube, and Facebook.
People will be interested if they can see and/or hear something
in action. It's possible that a sighted person would see
something, and be interested enough in it to tell the blind
people they know about the optacon. The important thing is
communicating with people through social media rather
Once people know what an optacon is, and what it could do, then
someone could approach the open source community, and launch a
message to:Optacon!The funding would be the most difficult part, unless someone cannew optacon would be.
promote the work Charles has already done. Someone with
business acumen would need to do a cost-benefit analysis to see
how realistic a
What everyone can start doing is telling people about the optacon.blog entries could get the message across.
Create comments on Twitter and Facebook. If you have a sighted
friend or family member with a camera, get them to take a
picture of you using an optacon, and then share it publicly on
your Facebook timelines. If people like your post, then they
may 'like' or comment on it, or share the post with people on
their timelines. This would generate some excitement and
momentum to move the project forward. If ACB and NFB see that
there is enough momentum behind this project, than they would
want to get involved. A number opf years ago someone wrote a
good article for the Braille Forum about the optacon, but the
article didn't generate any enthusiasm. I think people would
rather see something in action than reading about it in a
lengthy article.
Tweets and short
I don't feel qualified to write about the optacon. I haven'tstill working on his dream.
used one in 30 years, and don't have one either. If I had one,
and knew how to use it effectively, I could get someone to make
a nice video to put up on my Facebook page. I do hae a lot of
Facebook friends, and also use Youtube and twitter all the time.
Thanks,
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: optacon-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:optacon-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Carolyn Arnold
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 7:18 PM
To: optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [optacon-l] Re: New Optacon
David, maybe, if you ever met the president of NFB at a
convention or somewhere and had your Optacon, you could convince
him.
Best from,
Carolyn
-----Original Message-----
From: optacon-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:optacon-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 7:03 PM
To: optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [optacon-l] New Optacon
Hi all,
Has anyone heard from Charles lately and anything about the new
Optacon project?
I pray for Charles, because I know his health was not good.
Also, I have tried to talk to the president of the NFB, and he
will not respond to my messages about giving to a new Optacon
project. I even told him that I read math and science texts with
the Optacon without the need for software that costs thousands
to do OCR on math symbols. I felt graphs, and everything on the
printed page of a math book with the Optacon, and I can now show
a sighted person what the math looks like, because I felt it
with the Optacon. I pray that Charles is okay, and
Please let me know if you have heard anything new regarding the
new
message to:Great to see you on here, Judy, and hearing about how you aremessage to:
reading knitting instructions and charts.
That is great.
Take care, all.
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
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