You would have to ask each one of them how much trash THEY remove on their snake hunting trips. In the last 2 days I have picked up over 20 beer cans and paper products. That was just at 3 different cache sites. I never walk away empty handed. I might not clean the whole area but if I just pick up one little item it adds up. It's sad that they can't see a benefit to what we do. I know that there are probably a few cachers out there that toss a can or some paper now and then but I am sure that there are some herpetologist who have left somethin on the trail. We should make Cache In Trash Out a part of our every day living. Being a Boy Scout, I was always taught you leave it better than you find it. I also teach LNT (Leave No Trace) to adults and youth. I doubt that anyone I have ever taught will be considered "Joe Six Pack". I wonder sometimes if the same people that disapprove of Geocaching are living the LNT principles when they go out? One other note, maybe we need better press on what we do for the environment rather than always focusing on the sport itself.. Mike The Brawny Bear PS: I think I will be up your way the first part of next week looking for little boxes hidden in fragile areas. I will leave my "Joe Six Pack" hat at home... :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric & Dayna East To: geocaching@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 6:23 AM Subject: [GeoStL] Re: Gilligan Returns Mike Griffin wrote: Just a side note from Corporal Snuffy... The hunter that found this cache, left a steel penny or something.. I can't remember exactly what it was but I am sure it was a coin. I just thought that was nice and it made me smile thinking that he just stumbled upon this box in the woods and wanted to play with us.. It only shows that some hunters have no problem with it while others are just downright miserable. Mike If any of you have read my profile, you'll see that I am also into herpetology, the study of reptiles and amphibians. And, it was through that hobby that I first learned about geocaching (I stumbled across a cache while snake hunting). I thought the game sounded great so, I posted a message about it on one of my favorite forums @ Kinsnsnake.com & man did I ever get blasted by the tree huggers there; the general consensus was that by giving out exact coordinates to places of beauty that geocaching was going to be the ruin of all existing natural areas, especially those in the "FRAGILE" south-west, by allowing Joe Six Pack to visit areas he wouldn't have otherwise known about & throw beer cans & trash all over the place. Another argument was that geocaching in and of it self was just glorified littering! Oh well, to each his own I guess... God bless! Eric