[bksvol-discuss] Re: Baen books again - page break alignment?
- From: "Bob" <rwiley@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 11:34:30 -0600
Kurzweil and other reading programs translate hard page breaks into page breaks
but tend to ignore soft page breaks.
I don't know if this is enough justification to keep Baen books from entering
the library unaltered, but it should be considered.
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: Guido Corona
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 10:51 AM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Baen books again - page break alignment?
Dave, you bring up very good points. My personal inclination is that page
breaks always should be aligned with the print copy corresponding to the ISBN,
even if these files are sourced directly from Baen. However, ultimately this
may be a Bookshare decision.
Guido
Guido Dante Corona
IBM Research,
Human Ability & Accessibility Center, (HA&AC)
Austin Tx.
Phone: 512. 838. 9735.
Email: guidoc@xxxxxxxxxxx
Web: http://www.ibm.com/able
". . . Maybe it was only those who were most certain they were right who were
guaranteed to be wrong. And that maybe, just maybe, those who questioned the
most were in the end those who came closest to being wise."
[David Poyer, The Command]
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Subject [bksvol-discuss] Re: Baen books again - how do we submit
them?
Hi Guido,
As you pointed out, the only hard page breaks
seem to be in the front matter, while all the
rest are soft breaks generated in accordance with
the page setup. Yes, I know that statement rates
high on the duh scale, as I'm only restating
earlier observations. My point however, is that
as the e-text edition is a valid version of the
title, I wouldn't think it would be necessary to
match page breaks up with the print editions, but
rather just replace the soft breaks with hard
ones. I think we need to remember here what the
motivation was initially behind demanding hard
page breaks to begin with. For others on the
list who may not have been here, or don't recall,
they were intended to provide a mechanism for
navigating the daisy files. This is a bit of a
unique situation as the provider, a commercial
publisher, willingly allows their e-text works to
be incorporated into the Bookshare collection by
individual users, rather than transferring directly by staff members.
Dave
At 10:33 AM 1/8/2008, you wrote:
>JFW reports appropriate section numbers upon
>ins-pagedown. These seem however to be based on
>the currently loaded template rather than on any
>particular control codes found in the
>document. We could physically insert a
>page break at each spot following a
>ctrl-pagedown, but I fear that may not match
>necessarily the print copy. Another way may be
>to scan the paperback anyhow, and then to use it
>only to locate appropriate page break which we
>would then insert in the publisher-perfect etext.
>
>
>Interesting problem.
>
>Guido Dante Corona
>IBM Research,
>Human Ability & Accessibility Center, (HA&AC)
>Austin Tx.
>Phone: 512. 838. 9735.
>Email: guidoc@xxxxxxxxxxx
>Web: <http://www.ibm.com/able>http://www.ibm.com/able
>
>". . . Maybe it was only those who were most
>certain they were right who were guaranteed to
>be wrong. And that maybe, just maybe, those who
>questioned the most were in the end those who came closest to being wise."
>[David Poyer, The Command]
>
>
>
>"Pratik Patel" <pratikp1@xxxxxxxxx>
>Sent by: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>01/07/2008 04:09 PM
>Please respond to
>bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>To
><bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>cc
>Subject
>[bksvol-discuss] Re: Baen books again - how do we submit them?
>
>
>
>
>Hi Guido,
>
>Word 2007 reports Section X of Y on the status
>bar if there are multiple sections in a file. I
>don’t recall 2003 reporting that info. But,
>try Insert+PGDN (or JAWS+Page down). I must say
>Word 2007 is a lot better at reporting relevant
>info. If you don’t find that info, try doing
>a global replace for ^b with ^m and see what’s
>reported. If word manages to replace multiple
>occurrences, you can safely assume that it was
>the case. In any case, it doesn’t hirt to
>replace section breaks with hard page
>breaks. If you do have multiple occurrences and
>manage to replace them, save the file and reopen
>it in Kurzweil 1000. Now Kurzweil 1000 should reportcorrect number of pages.
>
>Prat
>
>
>From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>[<mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>On Behalf Of Guido Corona
>Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 4:09 PM
>To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Baen books again - how do we submit them?
>
>
>That's entirely possible Prat. How do we check
>for 'section breaks' in MS Word / JFW? G.
>
>
>Guido Dante Corona
>IBM Research,
>Human Ability & Accessibility Center, (HA&AC)
>Austin Tx.
>Phone: 512. 838. 9735.
>Email: guidoc@xxxxxxxxxxx
>Web: <http://www.ibm.com/able>http://www.ibm.com/able
>
>". . . Maybe it was only those who were most
>certain they were right who were guaranteed to
>be wrong. And that maybe, just maybe, those who
>questioned the most were in the end those who came closest to being wise."
>[David Poyer, The Command]
>
>"Pratik Patel" <pratikp1@xxxxxxxxx>
>Sent by: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>01/07/2008 02:54 PM
>
>
>Please respond to
>bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
>To
><bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>cc
>Subject
>[bksvol-discuss] Re: Baen books again - how do we submit them?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>There appears to be some inconsistency on how
>books derive their page numbers. Not all books
>have correct page breaks. I just downloaded two
>books for comparison purposes. One had no hard
>page breaks, the other, had some hard page
>breaks and other soft breaks. Guido, the
>version you downloaded, how many sections does
>Word report having in that file? I suspect that
>that particular book probably has the infamous
>section breaks that FR is so fond of inserting
>instead of hard page breaks. That probably is
>the reason why Kurzweil 1000 decided not to like those pages too.
>
>Prat
>
>
>From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>[<mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>On Behalf Of Michael Sestak
>Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 3:43 PM
>To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Baen books again - how do we submit them?
>
>The book I downloaded had hard page breaks for
>the front pages up to the first chapter, then
>soft page breaks for most of the rest (maybe
>some hard page breaks between chapters). As I
>understand it, the bookshare software does not
>recognize soft page breaks (actually, I don't
>think soft page breaks exist in the file, I
>think word just puts them in on the fly).
>
>Misha
>----- Original Message ----
>From: "james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx" <james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Sent: Monday, January 7, 2008 9:50:35 AM
>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Baen books again - how do we submit them?
>
>Hi Guido,
>Are some of the page breaks hard ones and some soft perhaps? What does it
>look like when you use Control+Shift+8 and use JAWS to look at the
>character codes for the page breaks?
>
>Jim
>
>James D Homme, , Usability Engineering, Highmark Inc.,
><mailto:james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx>james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx, 412-544-1810
>
>"Never doubt that a thoughtful group of committed citizens can change the
>world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead
>
>
>
>
> "Guido Corona"
>
><<mailto:guidoc@xxxxxxxxx>guidoc@xxxxxxxxx
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> g Subject
> [bksvol-discuss] Re: Baen books
> again - how do we submit them?
> 01/07/2008 11:01
> AM
>
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> Please respond to
> bksvol-discuss@fr
> <http://eelists.org/>eelists.org
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>All, I have just downloaded:
>
>
> 1812: The Rivers of War by Eric Flint,
>
>
>from the Baen Free library site in unzipped RTF format. The book contains
>a valid copyright notice, an ISBN, specifies that this is a mass market
>edition--meaning it is the etext of a paperback, and it appears to sport
>page breaks of some kind. MS Word reports a total of 411 pages, while
>Kurzweil 1000 reports just under 250 pages. I suspect that the document
>may not use standard page breaks for pagination. If this were the case,
> some editors may not detect page breaks at all.
>
>
> Guido
>
>
>
>Guido Dante Corona
>IBM Research,
>Human Ability & Accessibility Center, (HA&AC)
>Austin Tx.
>Phone: 512. 838. 9735.
>Email: <mailto:guidoc@xxxxxxxxxx>guidoc@xxxxxxxxxxx
>Web: <http://www.ibm.com/able>http://www.ibm.com/able
>
>". . . Maybe it was only those who were most certain they were right who
>were guaranteed to be wrong. And that maybe, just maybe, those who
>questioned the most were in the end those who came closest to being wise."
>[David Poyer, The Command]
>
>
>
>"Dan Beaver"
><<mailto:dbeaver888@xxxxxxxxx>dbeaver888@xxxxxxxxx>
>
>Sent by: To
>bksvol-discuss-bounce@freelist
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> Subject
>01/07/2008 07:59 AM [bksvol-discuss] Baen books
> again - how do we submit them?
>
> Please respond to
><mailto:bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
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>
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>
>Ok, with all this talk I am just curious about how we would go about
>submitting them. The Baen books I have read none of them had page breaks
>or
>page numbers and no Copyright info included.
>
>Is this something that Jim and the Bookshare staff are going to work on?
>
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