Emin,
We have gone over this topic many times. Noel Runyan has pointed out that there
are currently no suitable materials we could use to fabricate reeds for the
tactile array. Unless some new technology could be found, there's no point in
moving forward. IF we were lucky enough to find suitable technology, then we
would need a project plan which still would not guarantee that a new optacon
could be made available. Many promising technologies never result in products
due to lack of funds or by bad management by the developers. I know of at least
one product I tested which sounded promising but never materialized. The
developers didn't listen to my suggestions on how to modify the product to make
it more useful or develop a business plan. As a result the product went
nowhere. This is all too common. Even when new technologies result in products
for a limited market, things don't always turn out as expected. What is
promised does not match what is delivered. I know people including me who
purchased new products and they didn't deliver what was promised. As a result,
the items are gathering dust. To add insult to injury one company from which I
purchased a product is still begging for money.
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: optacon-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <optacon-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf
Of Emin Demirci
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 3:47 PM
To: optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [optacon-l] Re: Why an optacon III? was Still Here, For The time Being
Hi Charles and listers,
I think there's still hope for a new generation of the device of which its
production stopped more than 30 years and the people are talking about its
merits. I also think that it shouldn't be criterion for the people on this list
as the potential buyers of this new product. There are people out there to give
money for such a device to give them independence. For example, a young woman
wrote an essay about the Optacon and Braille without even touching an Optacon
in her life until I gave one to her after this essay. With that essay she won
the excellent work prize of the Onkyo Braille Essay Contest in 2018 in Europe.
I am sure whatever the price is (I mean reasonable and I come back to it below)
they are ready to pay for access to print on spot with the Optacon like their
white cane when they decide to go out.
If we are talking about the marginal utility of the Optacon nowadays, certainly
some listers have already pointed out very valuable ideas and the price should
be at a certain level accordingly. I can say two things about the price:
In former years the blind people or the agencies for them were used to pay
thousalds of bucks for expensive Braille displays, Braille printers, screen
readers etc. Especially, in Europe I used for three years a specially-designed
computer for the blind with 8 Braille keys and a 40-cell Braille display which
costed then 24 thousand German marks.
Secondly, 1000 bucks that Charles assumes for the Optacon III is not a lot at
all because the blind people pay this amount for a good mobile pone or 800 for
the JAWS software.
Charles, I hope your health got better to continue your valuable work for the
blind and I wish you assemble a prototype soon.
Regards
Eminyou buy one should reckon the importance of a device
2020-09-21 3:57 GMT+03:00, CHARLES POND <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
Hello emin. Charles here. I'll reply to your message to me thisto view the list archives, go to:
week, God willing given my weakened condition. But for now regarding
the need or at least the sentiment for an optacon III (that's just
nomenclature for next generation optacon after the optacon II): the
things which people mention they do with their optacons don't require
an optacon III to do them. The R1X and II work fine. I don't have my
notes with e right now, but even if an optacon III beyond the
prototype could be developed and sold for under a thousand dollars, I
doubt people would snap them up -- even people on the list who are already
optacon users.
although the technology developed here is essentially optacon-like, it
is not at all backward compatible with the optacon II and the R1X
models. Not at all. I think people really just want some assurance
that their optacons will work and be there as long as they are wanted,
and this doesn't extend to needing or paying for an optacon III.
Aside from being computer compatible, and with room for development,
and a few other lesser details like a slightly bigger display and many
more tactile-actuators than the 144 pins of the R1C/D, and a smaller
footprint, the only real big advantages of the pre-pprototype
technology here is that one can build the vibrotactile displays easily
and for far less cost. Even so, a thousand mamoolian is beyond many
blind people because they do not have a whole lot of readily disposable
income.
P.S. In the interest of full disclosure I acknowledge that I am not
photon-dependent.
Charles
On 2020-09-20 5:37 a.m., David Plumlee (Redacted sender knobman for
DMARC) wrote:
I certainly hope that an Optacon III comes on the market someday.ld
Not only have I enjoyed contact with the letters on the page, I have
also enjoyed the ability to move that camera anywhere on the item of
interest somewhat like a sighted person can move a mouse around the
screen. That ability allowed me to read schematic diagrams in books
and magazines about electronics - something which no OCR machine
currently available on earth would do for me. Using that ability, I
dictated a few schematics onto cassettes in the format used for years
in "Braille Technical Press" and "Technical Files Magazine" which
were available in years past. I have also been able to read some
displays on consumer and music electronics - again, something which
the current OCR units won't do, mainly because they are not made so
that they can be easily positioned on the screen of the device of
interest. If someone were going to add some kind of speech to a
device reading printed items, one neat function wou
be some kind of camera-like device which could be positioned over
the screen for speech readout. In "days of old" when LCDs first came
into existence, the characters were not as flexible as they are on
modern displays, so such a readout would be a bit more difficult these days.
Oh yes, I use the speech-output systems anytime that approach is the
best for the reading need at hand; but I'll certainly grab an Optacon
when it is the best way to read that item; and I'll give thanks for
the Optacon's availability!
-----Original Message-----
From: optacon-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <optacon-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
On Behalf Of Emin Demirci
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2020 10:41 AM
To: optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [optacon-l] Re: Why an optacon III? was Still Here, For The
time Being
Dear listers,
Obviously, for some time here the people have been talking about the
Optacon III. Since I am new on this list I don’t know what you mean
by Optacon III. I mean, what properties do you expect this Optacon to have?
When I think about the legacy of this valuable device I always think
about the term marginal utility in economics. The people who are
familiar with economics explain this term with the first sip of beer
when you are thirsty. The enthusiasm decreases with the number of sips.
We were terribly thirsty for reading with no other solution than a
reading person to us when the Optacon came to our lives. Not only
that it gave the possibility to actually touch the text and feel it.
More than 10 thousand Optacons were sold at nearly the price of a car
in 10 or 15 years until the TSI stopped manufacturing it. The number
is not small because only 150 thousand Perkins Braillers have been
sold since 1947, that is what I read somewhere some years ago.
Therefore, the number of the sold Optacons can not be considered very
small. In other words, if it was cheaper it could have been sold to more
people.
Anyhow, that’s not the point that I want to discuss here.
Certainly, in the past 50 years we have seen tremendous
developments in the recognition of the camera, micro-processors,
software analysing and converting the print (OCR), output techniques
(first mechanical displays, Piezzo electric displays, nowadays cheap
Orbit cells etc.) Remember, synthetic speech didn’t exist then at
all. If we are talking about touching the actual print I am also
considering the feasibility of the Moon alphabet for an output method for
instance.
The current reading solutions other than the Optacon gives you the
impression that you are driving the car from the backseat. They are
worse than somebody reading to you because at least you can ask
him/her certain things about the text. You can still do this if they ever
work at all.
Shortly, we are still more or less at the same position like 50 odd
years ago when the times of grabbing a newspaper, book, filling up a
form, signing a document handed over to us etc. The libraries and
bookstores are still far from us. I can say that current reading
solutions with all attractive capabilities create a fake feeling of
independence.
It is truly understandable why the people on this list talk about a
new generation of the Optacon because only they know the joy of
touching the actual text on paper. They could do almost everything
they want with this unique technology. Unfortunately, those who don't
know about the beauty of freedom this way also don't know what is missing in
their life.
Charles wrote that a few years ago somebody in England put some
Optacons to sell, but they weren’t got sold out. It seems
disappointing, but when one considers the differences between today’s
technological level, needs and expectations with those of 50 years ago.
Thinking about some withdrawals like numbing of the finger etc. And
the price which is compared to its alternatives whatsoever. Anyway, I
can explain this situation again with marginal utility. I am 100%
sure if Optacon III comes out with current technological
developments, smaller and cheaper the Optacon user army here on this
list is ready to publisize it around the World. If the prototype is
ready I have contacts with some electronics manufacturers in Turkey
for its mass production. I think one is the World book famine day in
January we can start a big campaign for that.
Any comment is appreciated.
Greetings
Emin
2020-09-12 10:54 GMT+03:00, CHARLES POND <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
Mary asks if we have hope for an optacon III?� Well, from an avvidto view the list archives, go to:
optacon user: with but a few dozen optacon users worldwide, and all
of us over 52 and likely many in their 60s an older, what is the
need for an optacon III?� I recall some years ago George Bell from
Technovision in Britain had put on the list a lot of nicely
refurbished optacons and accessories for sale.� If I recall
correctly, despite the sentimental clamor from listers for optacon
this and that, they didn't exactly fly out the door in spite of
George's best efforts to have made them available.� George
indicated that if he couldn't manage to sell them he would have to
take a terrible financial loss, indeed.
Likely, people confuse their personal zeal for their optacons with a
projected need for them by others.� So, would an optacon III
sell?� I think not.
Charles in Ottawa
On 2020-08-09 3:44 a.m., Mary Lorefice wrote:
Good morning optaconers.to view the list archives, go to:
I'll stick around for a while to see what happens. Should we give
up hope for an Optacon III?
MaryL
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