OK. After reading Jim and Barry's emails I am now totally confused. I want to go and do the caches but I am not sure where we should go, and if we go there how do we get in. Do we use the old parking and follow the old coordinates or do we use the new parking and bring a boat and some climbing equipment? Or do we use the new parking to meet at and then car pool over to the old parking and then use the old coordinates? Decisions, decisions, what should we do? It's as clear as muddy snow!!! Jack